Posted on 10/03/2011 9:24:36 AM PDT by jesus4life
Another question?
Amen Praise God!
"Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God" (Ephesians 6:13-17)
"...and having done all, to stand" I wonder what is meant by that? Maybe..."...and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." (2 Timothy 1:12)
Good grief, you think this is not? It's a different category than today's political issues.
Also, Gamliel's prophecy is part of Scripture. It was fulfilled as it applied to the Apostles in his day and continues to be relevant to the end of days:
Likewise we must not boast against the branches or be high-minded thinking we cannot be cut off and others grafted in our place:
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree?
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.
For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance. - Romans 11:18-29
(...”Good grief, you think this is not? It's a different category than today's political issues.”....)
No I don't think homosexuality and pedophilia is equally nonnegotiable to the Pope. History attests to that, let alone the current dragging his feet on ridding the church of these Priests and Bishops or whatever office they hold.
So no...it's not.
But as everything in the catholic faith, lets put it in another category or level, or splice and dice it and cover it with all means of cloaks and excuses until time has passed and “other” ‘safe’ political issues are on the hot seat.
The leadership throughout has failed and continues to fail....on THIS issue. Adding more bureaucratic levels of adherence's is not taking out the trash..once again.
Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who merely happen to be walking about.
G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy
Thank God for His leading!!!
Research the work of Pope Benedict before and after his election as pope. Research is work and rulings regarding those selected for the priesthood.
Consider who the homosexual lobby’s primary target and which Church remains the bulwark against them. [ This attack goes quite far back is concerted, organized and directed to destroy from within.) Consider which Church, almost alone, has remained firm against women priests and homosexual marriages (protection of marriage listed above.)
Consider who the media’s primary target is in tearing down the traditional family and acceptance of homosexuality as ‘normal.’
And then consider, those who join them in their effort. And pray about whether you wish to be among them.
I’ve done more than simply “consider”....I’ve looked for what has actually been done to the offenders.... Are they still within the church?... Are children still in their company?.... Are they in jail where they belong?... Are those in authority who knew of these actions and sheltered them being held accountable?
You have attempted to name your church as the “target” of the homosexual community....which is playing indirectly the ‘victim” card again...when in fact many innocent children were the victims.
As for Pope Benedict before and after his popehood....how about what did he know about and refused to intervein with the Priests the church continued to protect....before and after his popehood.
No I would not “join” a catholic group fighting these issues until they clean out the trash within their own congregations.... Besides the catholic church leadership generally joins with others who have already begun to fight against these issues...after the fact.
Good post Mitch! And good advice about the armour too. ..glad you posted that scripture!
The intended and primary victim of attacks by homosexual activists and the media is the Catholic Church.
The overwhelming majority of child abuse is homosexual. Pedophilia and the gay agenda go together hand in glove. Go to any well known homosexual activist site, look for whom they consider the enemy.
There are conclusions that can logical be deduced from this. That the Church is too lenient is not one of them.
Child, and other, sexual abuse occurs in all churches, and even more frequently in secular schools. Baptist administrators caught criticism recently for tracking problems. Mainstream protestant churches are ordaining gay clergy and recognizing gay marriage.
Anglicans elected an openly gay bishop in a homosexual relationship, which began while he was married.
Some Presbyterian churces allow openly gay pastors; some have gone further, perform gay marriage ceremonies.
More than 100 Methodist ministers in New England have pledged to marry gay couples.
The largest Lutheran denomination, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, now accepts noncelibate clergy members and lay leaders who are in “lifelong” and “monogamous” same-sex relationships.
One Church among all of this has remained firm on its teaching on homosexuality, gay clergy, and same-sex marriage. And it IS the primary target for the media and homosexual activists. For good reason: the others are giving in.
Yet some concentrate their objections on this issue against the Catholic Church. To me it is transparently irrational.
And only serves those other groups wishing to attack, diminish and ostracize the Church to promote the homosexual agenda.
.how about what did he know about and refused to intervein with the Priests the church continued to protect....before and after his popehood.
I really have lost patience with whack-a-mole helter-skelter discussions. They serve no purpose in finding truth and no purpose in allowing or encouraging the new blooms of age-old hatreds.
I wish you well in your other discussions.
Well then address the statements with the facts you claim rather than claim the catholic church is the “victim” in this issue. The children are the victims. The Priests and those who protected them need to be outed....It’s really not complicated. Crimes were committed...the guilty need to be called to account.
Instead you go on a rant about the protestant churches which is just another diversion tactic commonly used to deflect the issue of the church draggin their feet on the homosexual pedophile issue within the catholic church.
And once again...claiming all the “stuff” the church has instituted to prevent this from further happenings does not address those currently remaining within the church and not being outed.
Call me cynical. Nothing will satisfy, nothing will be sufficient, nothing will be credible, nothing will prevent another whack-a-mole head popping up. The children are victims, but the Church is the object of attack, always and again.
Just wow.....
You know what? Calling the Church on it's reprehensible foot dragging and lack of action in regard to the priest molesting children issue is NOT attacking the church. It is holding them accountable and demanding justice. That is not an attack.
That is Scripturally mandated action.
God does not overlook sin in the midst of His people. If the church leadership does not deal with sin it its midst, the judgment of God will certainly fall on it.
If the world caught a pedophile or child rapist on the streets, there'd be no end to the calls for tarring and feathering the guy after skinning him alive. Neither the world nor may religious folks have much tolerance for that kind of perversion. And just who are the ones claiming that the perpetrator is being attacked? Does anyone claim that calls for justice to the perpetrator of a crime, are attacks on him? Or is holding the perp accountable the expected, even Biblical, course of action?
Where is the Catholic church on this issue? Not acting until negative publicity about the Church through the news media FORCED them to? Until lawsuits brought by the victims by the secular courts because the Church wouldn't address the issue forced them to?
There is no basis for whining about attacking the church.
The criticism of their lack of action, which essentially makes them culpable, is well deserved. When they failed to deal with the priests and protect them and not the children, they became complicit in the crime and deserve every bit of criticism that comes their way. They KNOW better and nobody can convince me otherwise. It's in the very Scripture they claim they wrote.
No, from the obvious evidence on these threads, the purpose and point of these posts is to attack the Church. I don’t think the high tone of righteousness obscures or hides this from very many, certainly not me.
If not this issue, then another one, any one will do.
This is the third wack a mole in our short discussion. It seems it's the "go to' mole when a poster gets lost on a topic or has no rebuttal.
A productive discusssion/debate on serious issues relies on respect for truth and maintaining some semblance of a rational linear order in topics and subordinate points. Without this you get a jumble of assertions and a lack of coherence all aimed towards a goal secondary to truth.
Productive discussion/debate also requires mutual respect of both sides as regards their behaviour, methods, willingness to prepare properly or already possess sufficient knowledge of the subject matter. Without this, insults, attacks, or sometimes playing to the audience, etc. results
I've come to believe these requirements are lacking here, meaning productive discussion is not a possible outcome or even the desired purpose. I'm not interested in discussion/debate for other purposes, particular concerning religion; I don't believe it serves anything good, only bad.
Correcting the most obvious and egregious slanders and errors… I think that's worth my time here (and I greatly appreciate those who spend time doing so); but, given the size and quantity of the participants, I'm beginning to wonder about that as well.
Meant to correct from the last sentence, previous post;
“given the quality of discussion and quantity of participants,”
Perhaps you thought that everyone was as interested in legitimate dialog and the truth as you are. Don't forget that there are many who really don't want to accomplish anything more than hiding in the tall weeds and throw stink bombs at the Church, all from behind the protection of a moderators skirts. (Why else would they do it anonymously on the internet and not actually show up at your parish to "save" you from "the Whore of Revelation"?)
When attention, with the accompanying facts, logic and reason, is brought to bear on one of these stink bombs it is immediately abandoned and disowned by the thrower and a new and more hurtful stink bomb is thrown. This is often performed by a sympathetic thrower to give cover and a graceful exit to the original thrower.
I no longer believe that it is necessary to correct the errors or clean up after one of these stink bombs because, after many of these encounters, it is clear that there are too many anti-Catholics that are not the least bit interested in the truth. Remember, it is perfectly within Forum rules to lie repeatedly about Catholics and the Church, it is just not acceptable to truthfully characterize it as a lie. (This is a rule whose sole beneficiaries are liars).
The bigger picture is none of these Catholic-bashers or their prevarications, pass the so-what test. There is nothing they can do or say to actually harm the Church other than a Satan-like provoking of Catholics to sin.
And when they succeed, they give every evidence of Satan-like rejoicing.
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