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To: rbmillerjr
Faith and works is Scriptural

Well, both words are used in Scripture, but they are not both requirements for salvation. The only requirement for salvation is the grace of God which He distributes through faith in Jesus Christ.

Good works are the fruit of this faith, the merciful result of the free gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Good works are the evidence of our salvation, not a requirement for it as Ephesians 2 tells us yet again...

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast." -- Ephesians 2:8-9

Do Roman Catholics include these verses in their Bible?

86 posted on 03/13/2011 3:46:34 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

We have James 2:

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
18 But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith.
19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder.
20 Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works,
23 and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God.
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.


88 posted on 03/13/2011 3:54:19 PM PDT by Lorica
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
CANON IV.-If any one saith, that man's free will moved and excited by God, by assenting to God exciting and calling, nowise co-operates towards disposing and preparing itself for obtaining the grace of Justification; that it cannot refuse its consent, if it would, but that, as something inanimate, it does nothing whatever and is merely passive; let him be anathema.

The Council of Trent: The Sixth Session

You misunderstand my meaning. Without our assent of will, our co-operation (working with God), we cannot be saved.

Moreover, in reading the sixth session of Trent, it seems clear that by grace and grace alone we are saved, though we must do good works else we choose to reject God and lapse from Faith.

93 posted on 03/13/2011 4:33:47 PM PDT by Cincincinati Spiritus
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Good works are the evidence of our salvation, not a requirement for it as Ephesians 2 tells us

I've been thinking about this for while now and especially in light of the recent child sexual abuse and rape that has become so exposed lately. What I think, that you expressed about good works being an evidence of genuine faith in Christ, is that those who have committed such horrific sins are plainly NOT truly living the Christian life of a Holy Spirit indwelt believer.

There is just no way that I can imagine any genuine believer can continue in such horrid and desperately wicked actions. Now I fully realize that we all have failures at times, but any Spirit-filled Christian will not be able to continue in that sin. We are changed in our natures by the new birth and we are chastised as children of God because he loves us and wants us to live holy lives. There will be a deep conviction of sin and a deep discomfort of not facing up to it, confessing and repenting of our sins before our loving Heavenly Father.

Jesus said by their fruits you shall know them. These people who not only continued in gross sin but delighted in it and joined with others in their sins show to me that they are NOT true Christians. I don't care how long they have been in ministry nor how much they have "sacrificed" for God, they will be the ones that Jesus tells to get behind him because he never knew them. They were NEVER his.

116 posted on 03/13/2011 6:54:45 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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