...I think the whole idea of praying to the saints rather than directly to the Father as commanded by Christ is blasphemous ...Really? So if I ask you to pray for me (please do!), I am blaspheming?
P-Marlowe wrote:
...it seems that the Catholic attitude toasted {sic} God is that somehow God is just too busy to hear our prayers...Again, really? If I ask you to pray for me again (and I do!), is that because I think God is too busy to hear my prayers?
P-Marlowe wrote:
...or that if only a more holy person than ourselves could mediate between us and God that this would be more effective in getting our prayers heard than if we ask Jesus to be our mediator. ...Wow, again, really? So if I ask you to pray for me (and again, I do!), does that mean I think you are more Holy than I or that I think Our Lord Jesus Christ is somehow NOT the Way, the Truth and the Light?
P-Marlowe wrote:
The whole thing diminishes the Glory and power of God.
What "whole thing"? Asking others to pray for us? Or is there more about Catholic Worship that bothers you to the point you condemn us? P-Marlowe wrote:
Frankly I believe that it was designed to do just that. Catholic theology exalts man and debases God. That is the bottom line.Aha! It is everything that Catholic's believe, is that what you are claiming?
My soul magnifies the Lord, And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior. For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden, For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation. He has shown strength with His arm: He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. He has put down the mighty from their thrones, and exalted those of low degree. He has filled the hungry with good things; and the rich He has sent empty away. He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy; As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever. Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum, et exsultávit spíritus meus in Deo salvatóre meo, quia respéxit humilitátem ancíllæ suæ. Ecce enim ex hoc beátam me dicent omnes generatiónes, quia fecit mihi magna, qui potens est, et sanctum nomen eius, et misericórdia eius in progénies et progénies timéntibus eum. Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo, dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui; depósuit poténtes de sede et exaltávit húmiles. Esuriéntes implévit bonis et dívites dimísit inánes. Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum, recordátus misericórdiæ, sicut locútus est ad patres nostros, Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula. Glória Patri et Fílio et Spirítui Sancto. Sicut erat in princípio, et nunc et semper, et in sæcula sæculórum. Amen.Wow, so you claim that the "bottom line" is that the theology of the entire Universal Church, extant since the Day of Pentecost "exalts man and debases God". Just wow. And with such clearly flawed reasoning. Do please pray for me and all of us debased (your implication) Catholics, as I assure you, we pray for you.
No I am saying that the "Roman" Catholic Church, in existence since about 600 AD, "exalts man and debases God". The Church of Christ (the invisible Universal Faith) exalts God and only God. That is the church that has been around since Pentecost.
To: presently no screen name; BenKenobi
narses provided the smoking gun, Ben. This is quoted from narses post:
Hear all our prayers, O Mother, [Blasphemously usurping God's role]
and grant them all. [Hideously blasphemous God-like powers]
We are all your children: [blasphemously usurping God-like parenthood]
Grant the prayers of [YOUR] children.[blasphemously usurping God-like prayer-granting powers]
1. hear all our prayers.... Sounds pretty straightforward to me.
2. We are all your children: Grant the prayers of your children.
We are HER children? HER CHILDREN? We are Gods children and His ALONE.
Now... You were saying something about not praying to Mary??
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Hoss
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You can be sure, there will ALWAYS [Until Jesus returns] be sufficient weasel words in the Vatican DAFFYNITIONARY, for RC's to rationalize the horrific idolatries, blasphemies and heresies in Mary's name.
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As a psychologist, the level of utter DENIAL involved is rivaled only, in my experience, by decades long addicted alcoholics. Evidently addictionis to idolatry, blasphemy etc. are every bit as demonized and tough to crack.