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To: lastchance
"It is my understanding that the main objection from Orthodoxy arises not from the idea that it means Mary is elevated to the status of goddess by the doctrine. (Which I have never come across in any readings about disagreements between Orthodox and Catholics on the doctrine). But from our Churches differing views on the doctrine of Original sin."

You are mixing apples and oranges here. The issue isn't that Panagia is rendered a goddess by the IC so much as it is that the doctrine makes her ontologically different from all the rest of mankind, She is thus not "human". If she is not "human", then her Son is not True Man...and that is heresy. Differing concepts of what exactly the Sin of Adam is or does to us is the other problem. Blessed Augustine's notion of Original Sin as being a "macula" on the soul of all mankind leads inevitably to the IM because, as I said earlier, the idea is that Christ cannot be contained in a "defective" vessel, borne by a human mother...and we are back to the heresy which the doctrine mandates.

"Several fathers suggest she was wholly without sin, personal or original."

So far as I know, no Eastern Father ever held that the Most Holy Theotokos was free from the effects of the Sin of Adam or Original Sin however denominated. A number felt that she was sinless through her lifetime while others disagreed, but those beliefs had nothing to do with her being ontologically different from the rest of us. In fact, it is precisely because she like all the rest of us was subject to the effects of the Sin of Adam that she is so great an example for all of us. Why should we care about a woman whom God made from conception perfect and unable to sin...unless she is a goddess whom we are supposed to worship?

626 posted on 12/06/2010 10:01:55 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: Kolokotronis

Thanks. I misunderstood one sentence in your comment and based my reply on that. I don’t want to take this thread too far off course so I think I’ll leave this discussion behind. I do appreciate that the EO honor and venerate the BVM even though they consider the Catholic Church’s formulation of the IC as heresy. I know that disagreement does not arise out of EO disparging or slandering the Virgin Mary.

I do believe that the Catholic view of original sin may be too much influenced by Augustine but the Eastern teaching is gaining more and more understanding and acceptance as seen in that passage of the Catechism. It remains though that we do not believe man to have been totally depraved as a result of the fall.

May the Lord who gives all life ever watch over you and bless you.


633 posted on 12/06/2010 10:33:45 AM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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