Posted on 09/06/2010 9:55:41 AM PDT by Salvation
The religious system introduced by John Calvin (1509-64). French reformer, in opposition to the doctrine of the Catholic Church on the meaning of humanity's predestination. In the Calvinist system, as a result of Adam's fall, man has no longer any internal freedom of the will; he is a slave of God. Everyone is eternally predestined, either for heaven or for hell, absolutely independent of his personal efforts. Consequently the elect cannot be lost. The basic principles of Calvinism are set forth in the Institutes of the Christian Religion, where Calvin argues that, since God is absolutely infinite, he is the only real agent in the universe and creatures are merely his instruments.
Doctrine held by certain Calvinists in the Netherlands in the seventeenth century. Originally taught by the Dutch Reformed theologian Jacobus Arminius (1560-1609). His followers were called Remonstrants. They opposed Calvin's teaching that grace benefits only the elect, that Christ died for the elect only, and, in general, his doctrine of selective salvation and absolute predestination, independent of human merit. Condemned by the Reformed Synod of Dort (1618-19), it paved the way for permanently dividing the followers of Calvin (1509-64) and the churches derived from the theory of predestination.
Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)
These five categories do not comprise Calvinism in totality. They simply represent some of its main points.
Catholic Word of the Day – links will be provided later by another FReeper.
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**They opposed Calvin’s teaching that grace benefits only the elect, that Christ died for the elect only,**
Good point. If that were true — How could Christ say to the Good Thief on Good Friday, “Today you will be with me in Paradise.”
Surely, the thief was not among the elect according to Calvinism.
WE can not judge. Only God can judge. That is where I see an error here.
You seem wise enough not to entertain a Calvinist for sadistic enjoyment.
I don’t, but we can put the Catholic opinion out here.
theologically inaccurate statement
According to?
>>WE can not judge. Only God can judge. That is where I see an error here.<<
“Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” John 7:24
The Greek word for judge is “krino” and it means “to call into question”. This is what Jesus means when He says “judge with righteous judgment”. We are to call into question the unbiblical actions of individuals and discern for ourselves whether or not to follow such a person. This is something that is sorely lacking in the Christian community today. It seems everyone is afraid of being accused of judging others. When that verse is used it is always in relationship to someone condemning someone else’s seemingly judgmental attitude. Christians aren’t to condemn, but we are to judge/call into question the actions of others and use biblical discernment to do so.
>>How could Christ say to the Good Thief on Good Friday, “Today you will be with me in Paradise.”<<
How would we know whether or not the thief was one of the elect? We would know only after it was obvious that the thief was saved. An example for all of us I would think.
I too have struggled with the Calvinistic concept of election but think I understand it by the above example.
I don’t see any validity in the theory, because of original sin and free will.
Some people can turn their lives around — and no Calvinist can say one day — they are not saved, and another day — they are saved.
It just isn’t logical to me.
Besides, God has no time limits. God’s time is not in an analog line like ours is — God’s time is all-encompassing.
I just thought of something else. What about the good men and women of the Old Testament. Are they “saved” or “not saved” according to Calvinists?
I’m just wondering and am serious in my questioning, for I think there is error in their (Calvinisitic) thinking.
The Institutes and the Westminster Confession
but hold back ! they would really throw a pail of water on this Pride parade, so please continue
in your "free will", is there anything you do that is a surprise to God?
ok - but just one more time - i really have to clean up the cats hairballs
Does God know BEFORE a child is born is that child will profess a faith or not?
Well, of course - He's omnipotent...
By the same token, He, knows ALL - part of that ALL, is knowing who is or isnt "elect"
Why do you limit God?
Yes, God is omnipotent....no hairballs there.
However, he gives man “free will.”
Some men (and women) sin. So God waits for them to come back to the Church and ask forgiveness.
But God is a loving God — the choice is that of the man or the woman. This is not limiting God at all.
Humans are the limited ones because of original sin.
so coming back to the "church" is now a prior condition of forgiveness?
Hmm
But doesnt God already know they are going to do that?
the choice is that of the man or the woman.
Well isnt God lucky they choose Him
.....almost sound like man chooses his salvation as long as he/she recites a repentance
Rather - in your linear understanding of time, it does appear we make choice - however, none are a surprise to God and He always knows the outcome -
Lemme ask you a question.....does God change His mind?
There. I fixed it for you
It is most interesting that Augustine and the Council of Orange were not mentioned in the above article. They were both very clear in their understanding of “Calvinism.”
***Good point. If that were true — How could Christ say to the Good Thief on Good Friday, “Today you will be with me in Paradise.”***
Because, the thief was among the elect.
I will not beat up fellow believers for the amusement of the unregenerate..
WE disagree on the order of salvation but not the one who saves.
i was saved as an arminian and I am saved as a Calvinist.. I was not saved as a Catholic
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