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Can We Really Trust the Book of Revelation? (Vanity)
myself ^ | 9/1/2010 | nhoward14

Posted on 09/01/2010 6:05:23 AM PDT by nhoward14

I've been really bothered in my spirit lately about the second coming of Jesus and I would like to bounce around a couple of thoughts.

Remember during the first coming of the Messiah, the Jewish priests and scribes were fully convinced what kind of person the Messiah would be and what he would do for them, and the Messiah ended up being a no-name carpenter, Jesus of Nazareth.

When asked about the end times, Jesus said he would return like a thief in the night and nobody knows the time but the Father.

Look at what we have today. People proclaiming "The end is near!" and "Jesus is coming soon!" and we have people preaching the Book of Revelation as if it is gospel truth. A vast number of preachers are convinced they know exactly how Jesus will come and what he will do. Sounds a lot like the first coming right?

Anyway, I don't doubt John of Patmos saw what he saw, but how do we know he wasn't stark raving nuts when he saw it?

What if the Lord allowed a book of gibberish into the Bible in order to conceal his true plan for the end of days and the establishment of his kingdom after his return?


TOPICS: General Discusssion; History; Theology
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1 posted on 09/01/2010 6:05:28 AM PDT by nhoward14
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To: nhoward14

A book of gibberish? God is not the author of confusion - that’s the territory of the evil one. And the latter would like you to believe that nothing has changed, all things are as they’ve always been....where is the promise of His coming...blah, blah, blah.


2 posted on 09/01/2010 6:08:57 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: nhoward14

You’re being too cute by half. The Bible is God’s Word. It is inerrant. The problem with the Bible is, we tend to put our own biases and experiences into our reading. It’s not the Bible’s fault (or God’s). It’s our fault.


3 posted on 09/01/2010 6:10:03 AM PDT by bcsco (From Recovery Summer to The Winter of our Discontent...)
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To: nhoward14

Of course we can trust it. The problem is that the language is written for first century Christians in symbols they could understand because they are repeated in the books of Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeramiah..etc.

Revelation is the revelation of the fact that when all is said and done God is in control of all things and for the children of God this means a state of permanent relationship and worship.


4 posted on 09/01/2010 6:10:41 AM PDT by Patrick1
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To: nhoward14

as one of my teachers of troubleshooting once drilled into our brains: there is indication and there is interpretation...The indication is correct always, the interpretation...not so much


5 posted on 09/01/2010 6:12:13 AM PDT by stefanbatory (Insert witty tagline here)
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To: nhoward14
A vast number of preachers are convinced they know exactly how Jesus will come and what he will do.

And they have all been wrong, and they will always be wrong. Jesus will come as we have read in Scripture, like a thief in the night. From a Christian perspective, it means to always do everything you can to walk in the ways of the LORD, because you never know when He might show up.

If it had been written that Jesus was coming back on 12/22/2012 or some other date, then everyone would pretty much have a license to sin up until 12/21/2012. That is why, I think (and I am most certainly no expert) why God isn't telling us what the date will be.

6 posted on 09/01/2010 6:13:41 AM PDT by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: nhoward14
Anyway, I don't doubt John of Patmos saw what he saw, but how do we know he wasn't stark raving nuts when he saw it?

It sounds like you are the one that is nuts. I trust the whole Bible and not necessarily the persons with their own translations of plain English. Listen to several main line preachers and and see what they have to say.

7 posted on 09/01/2010 6:13:46 AM PDT by mountainlion (concerned conservative.)
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To: nhoward14

It is not gibberish.

The reference to Jesus coming like a thief is the rapture.

What will be “stolen” from the world will be the Holy Spirit Who currently holds back evil’s full force in the world, along with the bride of Christ (believers) who will meet Jesus in the air to escape the 7 year tribulation period which is to follow.

References to the coming of Christ to earth in His full glory is actually the third coming of Christ... at the end of the 7 year tribulation, when He will establish His kingdom on earth and the millennial reign of peace begins.


8 posted on 09/01/2010 6:14:12 AM PDT by Safrguns
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To: nhoward14
I'm not sure why these posters are questioning your private judgments regarding Scripture.

You have as much authority in your interpretation as they do.

9 posted on 09/01/2010 6:14:18 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: nhoward14
"Coming like a thief in the night" means no announcement, no "Here I come!"

That doesn't mean we can't see the signs. Just like leaving your door wide open in the inner city, you can see the signs, see the imminent arrival of the thief.

Our door is open, and the neighborhood is going downhill very quickly now. Those who are alert can see what's gonna happen.

10 posted on 09/01/2010 6:17:12 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: nhoward14

Bible is the Word of God. You can trust it.


11 posted on 09/01/2010 6:17:48 AM PDT by Chong (How's that HopEy, changEy, (thingEy) stuff working out for ya?)
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To: nhoward14

There is not a doubt that the contents are true; the accuracy might be questionable in many of the descriptions for what had been seen in the visions and prophecies. Their language and concepts did not readily recognize nor contemplate the 21st century so the descriptions would be twisted. The overall principles and themes are true. God did not and does not lie.

Revelation is unfolding an we are witnessing it.


12 posted on 09/01/2010 6:18:17 AM PDT by himno hero
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To: nhoward14

Ah, how the devil works,beginning in the garden with the first words out of his mouth, Hath God said?, and he still uses these methods. Nevertheless, God’s Word (a.k.a.) remains true and those that believe Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and how He died for our sins and rose again the third day are saved and the rest are not, religious or athiest alike are unforgiven as the Scriptures teach those who search them. You need to know that God can not lie.

2Ti:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 3 (King James Version)

2 Timothy 3
1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their’s also was.

10But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

11Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


13 posted on 09/01/2010 6:19:09 AM PDT by kindred (Come, Lord Jesus, rule and reign over all thine enemies from Zion, the chosen nation.)
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To: nhoward14

The Lord will come as a thief in the night (1 Thess. 5:2), but we will not be overtaken in this way (5:4). We can watch and see the day approaching, and be vigilant, because we have the warnings of Scripture to guide us. That said, Revelation is apocalyptic literature, and it is full of symbols. The nature and timing of these symbols is a subject of some disagreement. But the event will clarify them nicely. You and I need to be ready for anything: either the Lord’s coming or tribulation.


14 posted on 09/01/2010 6:20:00 AM PDT by Genoa (Titus 2:13)
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To: nhoward14
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 2 Timothy 3:16
15 posted on 09/01/2010 6:21:47 AM PDT by stars & stripes forever ( Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness)
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To: nhoward14

Revelation, like all biblical books, are considered “divinely inspired” and not literal truth.

Revelation was written in prophetical style, not because it was a prophesy of distant future events, but commentary on the present.

At the time of the writing, Christians were being sorely persecuted by Nero.

Like in all dictatorial regimes, you cannot criticize the tyrant w/o getting executed.

Hence, Revelation is merely an inspirational text to provide hope to those Nero-era Christians.

In terms of “recognizing the false prophet”, Revelation doesn’t indicate anything other than (if I recollect correctly) “you will have no doubt” or something.

In the Gospels, Jesus indicates that you recognize the false prophet by seeing the result of their works - i.e., not what they say.

I always liked that bit as it’s a lot like democrats. They sing a good song, but the result of their programs only increases the problems they claim they want to solve.


16 posted on 09/01/2010 6:22:21 AM PDT by fruser1
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To: kindred

[God’s Word (a.k.a. the holy Bible. the Scriptures)


17 posted on 09/01/2010 6:22:38 AM PDT by kindred (Come, Lord Jesus, rule and reign over all thine enemies from Zion, the chosen nation.)
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To: Genoa

You said it much better than I did.


18 posted on 09/01/2010 6:22:42 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: nhoward14; Armaggedon

Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.


19 posted on 09/01/2010 6:23:08 AM PDT by Ezekiel (The Obama-nation began with the Inauguration of Desolation.)
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To: nhoward14
The first few verses of the book would clear up most misconceptions if we would only read them:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants - things which must shortly take place....Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Let's not jump ahead to (boo! hiss!) THE BEAST. Instead, let's try to first understand the purpose of this revelation by hearing John's description of it in the "prologue".
20 posted on 09/01/2010 6:25:34 AM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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