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To: Mad Dawg

No, actually it’s called ‘comparing scripture with scripture’. And all I’m saying is that from these two scriptures, I believe that Heaven is located in the north part of the universe, pointing from the earth. It’s just an opinion, nothing more..:)

10 posted on 08/31/2010 7:46:32 PM PDT by smvoice (smvoice- formally known as small voice in the wilderness. Easier on the typing!)
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To: smvoice
I guess that's one reason the arguments of dispensationalists don't move me much.

The first text of of the comparison is an instance of indirect discourse on many levels: Isaiah says this is how you will taunt the King of Babylon (14:4 ff) you will say that the shades in Sheol will say (v.10, ff) that "you" (that is, the King of Babylon" said thus and so (v.13-14)

And it is in what Isaiah says
      that the people will say
            that the shades will say
                  that the King of Babylon said:
                        (among other vain boasts)
                        "I will sit on the mount of assembly
                        in the far north. ..."

(RSV -- Please don't make me haul out my MT!)                  
This you take to be a suggestion that heaven is somehow to be spoken of as in the north. But this is MOST conjectural, isn't it?

Now we toodle over to ψ 75:6.

The first problem is going to be about texts and translations. Neither my RSV, my NEB, nor the dreadful NAB include "south". My Young's Analytical spares me from having to get my dread MT by telling me the word is MiDBaR - pasture land or wilderness.

Darn! I had to get my MT and cross my eyes. What I find is (Awesome! I can still read Hebrew! sort of, avlittle. I need a refresher course ... badly!) what I find is nothng especially helpful, but I learned a new word, so it wasn't a waste of time.

The new official Mad Dawg translation, soon to be a major motion picture:

For not from east nor from west, and not from the wilderness [that is, un-built-upon land] is exaltation.
Now, when that famed (but modest) Biblical Scholar, moi, reads that kind of thing in the Bible generally but in the Psalms and Prophets more specifically, here's what I think. (Are you taking notes? Good! There WILL be a quiz)

Either it's saying, "Your exaltation, "promotion", salvation, redemption, whatever is not coming from any place on earth," OR it's implying ("[all of the above with] any place on earth but HERE, (Jerusalem, Israel/Judea) where the ark and/or the temple and the Shekhinah are."

But that's just me.

Okay. Pause for breath. I need a librarian to put my books back for me. I can never remember where I got them from.

Now, for completeness, we should touch on the question of heaven being a place in a nameable direction from any place with which we might be familiar. We see Elijah and our Lord "going up." But that's in a context where we sing "Sing to the LORD, for going up He has gone up [He is greatly exalted], horse and its rider (Dawg translation, 'driver' because of the etymological similarity between RoKeBo - rider and MeRKeBah - chariot) has he hurled into the sea." So exaltation, then as now, is metaphorical at least as much as a literal 'going up."

Also, speaking as an adopted Virginian, the idea of anything good coming from the NORTH, land of carpetbaggers and all the Yankees that came here after I did, is absurd on its face.

Just sayin'.

In any event, to be momentarily serious (doing Hebrew always makes me crazy), it I think it's problematic to talk about heaven being in a particular direction. Which way is the wilderness of Seir, from which the Lord comes? It must be north of somewhere, but north of everywhere?

And finally, while I think it good to mull over verses of Scripture, while offering the whole mulling process to God, I think to add a multi level indirect discourse to a perhaps overly specific translation of MiDBar and conclude that God's Word teaches that heaven is located in the northern part of the universe, is a reach.

That is definitely ALL the Hebrew I'm going to do for September! My eyes hurt.

20 posted on 09/01/2010 6:03:04 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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