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To: Persevero

Persevero:

Well, I am glad to see that you recognize that the orthodox Church Fathers gave serious theological reflection with respect to Mary and her “unique role” in God’s plan of salvation and that this theological study started early in the 2nd century as attested to in the writings of St. Justin Martyr who died circa 155 AD and also St. Ireneaus’s writings circa 175 AD.

No offense, but Not biblical based on your 21st century Protestant Assumptions. The Church Fathers did not operate from the “Sola Scriptura” Protestant Doctrine that was not part of the Church’s Tradition prior to the 16th century. Also, it need to be pointed out that the 2nd century Church did not have a formally and finally defined NT canon, as that was a process that would not culminate until the late 4th century, as I noted in my earlier post.

Mary’s role was in salvation history is always tied to Christological Doctrines, so the new Eve parraellel is drawn from Genesis 3:15 which speaks of a woman whom the Devil will strike at. This Woman was seen by the Early Church as a prefigurement of Mary and the Church, as both can be true as the Fathers so Mary as an archetype of the Church.

In addition to Mary as the New-Eve, which was how the Fathers interpreted Mary as the woman spoken of in Genesis 3:15 and later in Revelation 11:9 to 12:16. The Fathers also saw her as the Ark of the Covenant as I pointed out in my previous post.

Another important passage in the OT canon of the Early Church that both the Catholic and Orthodox Church have is from Wisdom 1:4 which reads “Because into a Soul that plots evil, Wisdom enters not, nor does she dwell in a body under the debt of sin”. The passage is also seen as pointing to the Incarnation of Christ as in the Church, “Wisdom” was understood to mean the PreIncarnate Christ so it thus follows that Christ would not take residence in an “Ark” that was stained with Sin just as the OT Ark was made of Pure Gold as it held the Manna from heaven, the rod of the Priesthood and the Ten Commandements which also prefigure Christ who is the True Word of God made flesh, the true manna from heaven and the eternal high priest.

And the fact that the Church saw in Mary as the New Ark of the Covenant, the book of Revelation 11:9 points to the Ark being in Heaven [which is seen to be Mary] and the following passages in Revelation 12 once again speak of a Woman and a Son which most fully represent Christ and his Mother Mary.


199 posted on 08/16/2010 3:29:54 PM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: CTrent1564; Persevero

**that this theological study started early in the 2nd century as attested to in the writings of St. Justin Martyr who died circa 155 AD and also St. Ireneaus’s writings circa 175 AD.**

And you guarantee those teachers to be without error?
Paul warned the elders of the church in Ephesus: “For I know this, that after my departing shall grievious wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also OF YOUR OWN SELVES shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.” Acts 20: 29-30

That was on Paul’s third missionary journey. He had run into a false prophet, on his first journey, that was perverting the right ways of the Lord.

Paul, Peter, James, John, and Jude all warned of false teachers and doctrines being present even then (1st century), as well in the years to come. Furthermore, I believe the devil didn’t wait 50 hours, let alone 50 years before trying to mislead the masses away from this ‘new and living way’.

**the Church saw in Mary as the New Ark of the Covenant,**

Maybe your church does, but the scriptures show the Ark of the Covenant to be one of many things that symbolize Jesus Christ himself.

What was in the Ark? The tablets of stone, or as Stephen refered to them...”the lively oracles”. What was/is in Jesus Christ? The Word. “..the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life.” John 6:63

**..passages in Revelation 12 once again speak of a Woman and a Son which most fully represent Christ and his Mother Mary.**

This forum has delt with that myth numerous times like it has others.
The woman is the nation of Israel, and the twelve stars are the twelve tribes. The chapter covers, in very spiritual terms, the persecution of the ‘woman’, after the man-child has been caught up to heaven. The ‘time, times, and half a time speak of the persecution during the great tribulation, where the nation is nearly overcome by the serpent.

Gotta go, be back in a couple of days.


213 posted on 08/16/2010 9:39:06 PM PDT by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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