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To: stfassisi
If this was the best system of man,as you say, they certainly knew that it was wrong

For their time, the Founding Fathers were way ahead of everyone else in the world which was ruled by autocratic despots. In fact, compared to their peers, they were extremely liberal, or left-orineted as we would say today.

Unlike any other country, it did away with the official Church, it had an elected president subject to the will of the people, etc. The press was relatively free. The religion was relatively free, the society was relatively free. One could be a deist but not necessarily an open atheist.

Taking of the land from the Natives was not seen as "wrong" any more than racial segragation in the society was seen as recently as 50-60 yeas ago.

The land was seen as a Providential gift to the new settlers, and cliaming it for the Motherland was not uncommon in any society. Natives themsleves fought over land contorl. The westward expansion was seen as a manifest of divine destiny.

Slavery was as much part of life as chickens. It has been there forever. It is biblical. It was not condemned in either Testament.

We can not judge the Founding Fathers for not counting the slaves as "men endowed with inalienable rights" because the Christian God does not condemn slavery. neither does any other god. So, there simply was no precedent.

Slavery was abolished not only in the US but all over the world pretty much at the same time, the 19th century, not as a 'revelation' that it was wrong but because it outlived its usefulness in the new industrial era.

The Church was politically weak due to the Reformation,they spoke against it,but it went on deaf ears because making money for the wealthy was more important than people in this system.

I am not aware that the Church spoke against it. St. Paul doesn't. Christ doesn't. Why would the Church? After all the Church became the state institution just about 1,700 years ago and existed as such in the slave-owning Roman Empire all the way into the 15th century and never raised a serious opposition to slavery.

Neither did the Western Church, as far as I know, oppose slavery actively, but I am not discounting brave efforts by some individuals as a distinct but ineffective possibility. I am simply not aware of any prominent opposition to slavery in either the East or the West.

106 posted on 07/26/2010 9:21:29 PM PDT by kosta50 (The world is the way it is even if YOU don't understand it)
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To: kosta50

“Neither did the Western Church, as far as I know, oppose slavery actively, but I am not discounting brave efforts by some individuals as a distinct but ineffective possibility. I am simply not aware of any prominent opposition to slavery in either the East or the West.”

Jefferson Davis, a High Church Episcopalian, had a Catholic education and was on friendly personal terms with the Pope. In fact, when Davis was imprisoned under very harsh conditions after the WBTS, the Pope personally handcrafted a Crown of Thorns and sent it to him.


110 posted on 07/26/2010 10:14:18 PM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: kosta50

“”Slavery was as much part of life as chickens. It has been there forever. It is biblical. It was not condemned in either Testament.””

The Church says it’s wrong therefore Christ says it’s wrong since he sends his spirit to the Church to interpret Scripture

“”We can not judge the Founding Fathers for not counting the slaves as “men endowed with inalienable rights” because the Christian God does not condemn slavery.””

They ignored the Church,so they ignored Christ.

“”I am not aware that the Church spoke against it.””

Sublimus Dei 1537
Pope Paul III (Topic: the enslavement and evangelization of Indians)
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Paul03/p3subli.htm

“Indians and all other people who may later be discovered by Christians, are by no means to be deprived of their liberty or the possession of their property, even though they be outside the faith of Jesus Christ; and that they may and should, freely and legitimately, enjoy their liberty and the possession of their property; nor should they be in any way enslaved; should the contrary happen, it shall be null and have no effect.”

IN SUPREMO APOSTOLATUS (Apostolic Letter condemning the slave trade)1839 by Pope Gregory XVI
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Greg16/g16sup.htm

We reprove, then, by virtue of Our Apostolic Authority, all the practices abovementioned as absolutely unworthy of the Christian name. By the same Authority We prohibit and strictly forbid any Ecclesiastic or lay person from presuming to defend as permissible this traffic in Blacks under no matter what pretext or excuse, or from publishing or teaching in any manner whatsoever, in public or privately, opinions contrary to what We have set forth in this Apostolic Letter.


119 posted on 07/27/2010 5:23:35 AM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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