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Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Eschatology: The Last Things: Hell: Reprobation
CatholicApologetics.org ^ | 1985-1991 | Dr. Robert Schihl and Paul Flanagan

Posted on 05/20/2010 8:35:14 PM PDT by Salvation

Catholic Biblical Apologetics


Apologetics without apology!


What does the Roman Catholic Church teach about ...? ... and why?

This website surveys the origin and development of Roman Catholic Christianity from the period of the apostolic church, through the post-apostolic church and into the conciliar movement. Principal attention is paid to the biblical basis of both doctrine and dogma as well as the role of paradosis (i.e. handing on the truth) in the history of the Church. Particular attention is also paid to the hierarchical founding and succession of leadership throughout the centuries.

This is a set of lecture notes used since 1985 to teach the basis for key doctrines and dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church. The objectives of the course were, and are:

The course grew out of the need for the authors to continually answer questions about their faith tradition and their work. (Both authors are active members of Catholic parish communities in the Diocese of Richmond, Virginia. Dr. Robert Schihl was a Professor and Associate Dean of the School of Communication and the Arts at Regent University. Paul Flanagan is a consultant specializing in preparing people for technology based changes.) At the time these notes were first prepared, the authors were spending time in their faith community answering questions about their Protestant Evangelical workplaces (Mr. Flanagan was then a senior executive at the Christian Broadcasting Network), and time in their workplaces answering similar questions about their Roman Catholic faith community. These notes are the result of more than a decade of facilitating dialogue among those who wish to learn more about what the Roman Catholic Church teaches and why.

Eschatology: The Last Things: Hell: Reprobation

Hell: Reprobation

Christians believe because the Bible is clear that hell exists.

Scripture speaks of hell in many ways:

As a state, Scripture speaks of hell with many words:

Mt 25: 31-46
(Then Jesus told the crowds and his disciples: ...) "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. ... Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.' ... And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Lk 16: 19-26
(Jesus said to them [the Pharisees]:...) "There was a rich man who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day. And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man's table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores. When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, and from the netherworld, where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he cried out, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.' Abraham replied, 'My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here, whereas you are tormented. Moreover, between us and you a great chasm is established to prevent anyone from crossing who might wish to go from our side to yours or from your side to ours.' "
Mk 9:42-47
(Jesus said in reply ... ) "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe (in me) to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were put around his neck and he were thrown into the sea. If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed than with two hands to go into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life crippled than with two feet to be thrown into Gehenna. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. Better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into Gehenna ..."
2 Thess 1:9
These will pay the penalty of eternal ruin, separated from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power, ...
Mt 13:40-42
Just as weeds are collected and burned (up) with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all who cause others to sin and all evildoers. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.
Jn 15:6
Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned.
Rom 2:6-9
... (he) will repay everyone according to his works: ... wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness. Yes, affliction and distress will come upon every human being who does evil, ...
1 Cor 6:9-10
Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Jn 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him.
Jn 5:29
(This was Jesus' answer ...) those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation.
Rev 21:27
But nothing unclean will enter it (the new Jerusalem, heaven),, nor any (one) who does abominable things or tells lies.
Rev 22:15
Outside (the new Jerusalem, heaven) are the dogs, the sorcerers, the unchaste, the murderers, the idol-worshipers, and all who love and practice deceit.
Mt 10:28
And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.
Rev 21:8
But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death.

The Fathers of the Church reflect the constant faith of the Church on the existence and nature of hell.

Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Ephesians, Ch. 16:1
Make no mistake, brethren; the corrupter of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. If, then, those are dead who do these things according to the flesh, how much worse if, with bad doctrine, one should corrupt the faith of God for which Jesus Christ was crucified. Such a man, for becoming contaminated, will depart into unquenchable fire; and will any one who listens to him.
Gregory of Nyssa, The Great Catechism, Ch. 40
Indeed, the sinner's life of torment presents no equivalent to anything that pains the sense here. Even if some one of the punishments in that other world be named in terms that are well known here, the distinction is still not small. When you hear the word fire, you have been taught to think of a fire other than the fire we see, owing to something being added to that fire which in this there is not; for that fire is never quenched, whereas experience has discovered many ways of quenching this; and there is a great difference between a fire which can be extinguished, and one that does not admit of extinction.

The teaching Magisterium of the Church has also affirmed the existence and nature of hell.

The Lateran Council IV, 1215
... the wicked (receive), a perpetual punishment with the devil ...
Pope Innocent IV (1243-1254)
But if anyone dies unrepentant in the state of mortal sin, he will undoubtedly be tormented forever in the fires of an everlasting hell. (Letter to the Bishop of Tusculum, Section 24)
Vatican Council I, 1869-70
Therefore, all who die in actual mortal sin are excluded from the kingdom of God and will suffer forever the torments of hell from which there is no redemption.
If anyone says that a man can be justified even after death; or if he says that the punishments of the damned in hell will not last forever; let him be anathema.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; catholic; catholiclist
Continuing the section of Eschatology: The Last Things.

There are a lot more references to hell in the Bible in my estimation than to heaven. I've had a priest affirm that notion too.

1 posted on 05/20/2010 8:35:14 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: nickcarraway; Lady In Blue; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; Catholicguy; RobbyS; markomalley; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via FReepmail if you would like to be added to or taken off the Catholic Discussion Ping List.

2 posted on 05/20/2010 8:40:42 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: All
Foundation

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Foundation: Apologetics Without Apology
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Foundation: An Incomplete Picture
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Foundation: Dearly Beloved Catholic Brothers and Sisters

Being Catholic and Christian: Faith and Salvation

Catholic Biblical Apologetics:Being Catholic & Christian:Faith and Salvation-Authoriative
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Being Catholic & Christian: Apostolic Confessions of Faith
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Post-Apostolic Confessions of Faith
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Salvation: A Biblical Portrait
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Salvation: "Being Saved"
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Catholic Response to "Are You Saved?"
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Knowledge of Salvation
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Faith and Works
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Process of Christian Initiation

The Church: A Biblical Portrait - A New Testament Apologetic

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Church: A Biblical Portrait - A New Testament Apologetic: Jesus Christ preached a Reign or Kingdom, the Kingdom of God (or of heaven).
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Jesus preached an end-times kingdom but one already existing on earth
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Jesus preached that the kingdom was primarily spiritual and internal but also visible and external.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Christ called and founded an exclusive, inner core group of twelve men called the "apostles."
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Christ committed His very mission to this twelve man inner core group, his Apostles, alone.
Christ gave to the Twelve, the Apostles, the power of ruling, teaching and sanctifying.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: This same church Christ willed to endure until the end of the world.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Christ instituted only one church, and that society was both formally and specifically a visible one.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Marks of the Church, One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Labels Among Christians
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Genealogy of Christian Faith Communities, Roman Catholicism
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: American Christian Branches Among European Founded Churches
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Modes of Transmitting Authoritative Doctrine

The Church: A Biblical Portrait - A New Testament Apologetic

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Church: A Biblical Portrait - A New Testament Apologetic: Jesus Christ preached a Reign or Kingdom, the Kingdom of God (or of heaven).
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Jesus preached an end-times kingdom but one already existing on earth
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Jesus preached that the kingdom was primarily spiritual and internal but also visible and external.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Christ called and founded an exclusive, inner core group of twelve men called the "apostles."
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Christ committed His very mission to this twelve man inner core group, his Apostles, alone.
Christ gave to the Twelve, the Apostles, the power of ruling, teaching and sanctifying.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: This same church Christ willed to endure until the end of the world.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Christ instituted only one church, and that society was both formally and specifically a visible one.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Marks of the Church, One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Labels Among Christians
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Genealogy of Christian Faith Communities, Roman Catholicism
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: American Christian Branches Among European Founded Churches
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Modes of Transmitting Authoritative Doctrine

Divine Revelation "By Letter" (2 Thes 2:15) The Bible

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Divine Revelation "By Letter" (2 Thess 2:15): The Bible
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Divine Revelation
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Bible: Written Revelation
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Hebrew Scriptures: Books of the Old Testament
Historical and Geographical Background for the Development of the Two Old Testament Canons
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Background Chart: Development of the Old Testament Canons
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Chronology of the Apostolic Age and the Development of the New Testament Canon
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Comparison of Terms for Disputed Books
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Inspiration of the Bible
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Hermeneutics: Understanding Revelation
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Hermeneutics: Understanding Revelation: Literal Sense
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Hermeneutics: Literary Form and History of John 6:25-69
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Hermeneutics: Interpretation of John 6:25-69
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Hermeneutics: Fuller Sense (of Scripture)
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Hermeneutics: Typical Sense (of Scripture)
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Major Church Pronouncements on the Bible

Divine Revelation "By Word of Mouth" (2 Thess 2:15): Handing On

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Divine Revelation "By Word of Mouth" (2 Thess 2:15): Handing On
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Paradosis: Handing On Divine Revelation (Orally)
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Biblical Model for Handing On Truth and Refuting Error: Acts 15, The Council of Jerusalem
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Acts 15 Model: General or Ecumenical Councils of the Church Universal
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: General Councils of the Church, 49-870
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: General Councils of the Church, 1123-1545
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: General Councils of the Church, 1870-1962
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Apostolic Fathers of the Church
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Post-Apostolic Fathers of the Church
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Doctors of the Church
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Handing On Divine Revelation: Vatican Council II

Truth Handling and Teaching Authority

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Truth Handling and Teaching Authority
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Peter: A Biblical Portrait
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Matthew Chapter 16, Verse 18: The Primacy of Peter
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Charism of Truth Handling: Infallibility
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishop of Rome
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, First and Second Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Third and Fourth Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Third and Fourth Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Seventh and Eighth Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Ninth and Tenth Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Eleventh and Twelfth Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Thirteenth and Fourteenth Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Fifteenth and Sixteenth Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Seventeenth and Eighteenth Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Bishops of Rome: Popes, Nineteenth, Twentieth and Twenty-First Centuries
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Charism of Infallibility: The Magisterium, Vatican Council II, The Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Chapter 25

The Sacraments: The Life of The Christian

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Sacraments: The Life of The Christian
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Sacraments: Opportunities of Grace
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Baptism: Initiation and Regeneration
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Sacraments: Opportunities of Grace: Reconciliation
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: Confirmation
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: The Eucharist: The Lord's Supper
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: Healing/Anointing of the Sick
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: Matrimony
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Opportunities of Grace: [Holy] Orders

The Communion of Saints

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Communion of Saints
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Communion of Saints: A Biblical Portrait of Saint
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Communion of Saints: The Canon of Holiness
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Communion of Saints: The Role of the Saints
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Communion of Saints: The Intercession of the Saints: How Do Saints Hear Us
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Canonization of Saints: Current Canonization Process, Biblical Description of Miracles
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Images and Relics of the Saints. The Incorruptibles
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Communion of Saints: Praying to the Saints/Praying for the Dead

Mary the Mother of Jesus: Saint

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Mary the Mother of Jesus: Saint
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Mary: An Introduction
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: A Biblical Portrait of Mary
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Mary: Virgin and Ever Virgin
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Immaculate Conception of Mary
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Assumption of Mary
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Private Devotions to Mary: The Rosary
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Apparitions of Mary

Eschatology: The Last Things

Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Eschatology: The Last Things
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Eschatology: The Last Things: Death
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Eschatology: The Last Things: Heaven
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Eschatology: The Last Things: Hell: Reprobationbr>

3 posted on 05/20/2010 8:59:02 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

I was invited to give a talk on the Eucharist in early June, I can’t wait. There’s so much material to cover.


4 posted on 05/20/2010 9:12:43 PM PDT by rbosque (11 year Freeper! Combat Economist.)
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To: Salvation

Wait, I don’t understand—the title of this piece mentions “reprobation” but that word does not appear in the article and there is no definition of it; the article is about hell. What is reprobation?


5 posted on 05/20/2010 9:22:51 PM PDT by ottbmare (I could agree wth you, but then we'd both be wrong.)
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To: ottbmare

“Reprobation” is God sending people (”reprobates”) to hell. Comes from the same Latin root as “reprove”.


6 posted on 05/20/2010 9:41:04 PM PDT by Campion
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To: Campion

So basically, do you believe that a person (or a soul) will either spend eternity suffering or spend eternity in bliss?


7 posted on 05/21/2010 3:36:43 AM PDT by ScubieNuc
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To: rbosque

Congratulations — a Sacrament that can SAVE them from hell. If course, Reconciliation is necessary too, to receive the Eucharist worthily!


8 posted on 05/21/2010 8:12:25 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ScubieNuc

**So basically, do you believe that a person (or a soul) will either spend eternity suffering or spend eternity in bliss?**

I’m going to throw in my answer and Campion can answer later.

Eternity in heaven or eternity in hell? That is the question.

For Catholics (and perhaps for others), a period of suffering in purgatory (will) may be necessary, for no one who is impure in any way can NOT enter the kingdom of heaven. The suffering in Purgatory is a waiting time of purification. The people there know they are going to heaven and must first attone for some of the damages they did in their lives and to the lives of others.

Those who die in the state of mortal sin are choosing to live in an eternity of hell as this original post states.

Another thing that Catholics count as a great gift is the Sacrament of Reconciliation. In confessing our sins, doing repentance and being absolved of the sin, we know that God forgives us and that HE also FORGETS those sins, because we are already doing the penance for them. It is truly a blessing and healing Sacrament.


9 posted on 05/21/2010 8:22:12 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
I asked: So basically, do you believe that a person (or a soul) will either spend eternity suffering or spend eternity in bliss?

You answered:

Those who die in the state of mortal sin are choosing to live in an eternity of hell as this original post states.

First, thanks for a straight forward answer. Second, I show you why I disagree with your answer.

What does the Bible say the wages of sin are and the gift of God is?

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

So the wages of sin is the END of life, not an eternal life filled with torture. Plus that is compared to what is given...ETERNAL LIFE. In order to be tortured forever and ever in "hell" or the Lake of Fire, a person would have to already have eternal life or be immortal. That is contrary to other verses.

1 Cor 15:53 "For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality."

1 Tim 6:15-16 "He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality..."

Basically, what the Bible says is that the punishment for sin is eternal, but eternal in its consequences. So it is an eternal punishment, not an eternal punishing. The saved will live eternally with God, the unsaved will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire, and the consequence of that will be eternal.
10 posted on 05/21/2010 5:05:58 PM PDT by ScubieNuc
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To: Salvation

Absolutely! I can’t wait because these folks don’t know about our Lord in the Eucharist! Happy for them, they will find the treasure in the field, that magnificent pearl!


11 posted on 05/21/2010 5:44:09 PM PDT by rbosque (11 year Freeper! Combat Economist.)
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To: ScubieNuc

**So the wages of sin is the END of life, not an eternal life filled with torture.**

So are you alive when you are in hell? — You talk about the end of life as being punishment. Then everyone who dies is being punished — even those who died in the state of grace and have incorrupt bodies.

I think you might be taking the Bible a little to literally there.

The end of life is a hell of eternity in everylasting flame and ashes.

So now, I have a question for you. What do you believe for someone who dies in the state of sin? Christ separates the sheep from the goats. The sheep go to everlasting life. The goats go to everlasting separation from God in hell.


12 posted on 05/21/2010 6:57:07 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
So now, I have a question for you. What do you believe for someone who dies in the state of sin?

EVERYONE dies in a state of sin. Our righteousness is as filthy rags. However, those who have accepted Christ's sacrifice are granted Christ's perfect righteousness, which is our salvation.

What will happen for the believer is our works will be judged and those works which are of Christ will be rewarded, those which are not will be destroyed, but our foundation, our salvation is secured through Christ, and not anything we have done.

1Cor. 3:10-15 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


What will happen for the unbeliever is they will stand before their Maker, the Creator of the Universe, and be judged by what was "on the books" (probably their works vs. what the actual cost of salvation is) and be shown that there was a place in the Book of Life for them, but they choose not to accept Jesus's gift of salvation. Then they will be tossed into the Lake of Fire and destroyed.

Rev 20:12-15 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Now, these verses do mention "death and hell". What is interesting is how the sea gave up their dead AS WELL AS "death and hell". Our thought process has been no matter where you died (at sea or in space or on land) you would either go to Heaven or Hell. Apparently, from the above verse, you can skip "hell" by dying at sea.

What the above verses are basically saying is that all of the unsaved dead, everywhere are being judged. Now, on the question is "hell" a punishment, like the Luke parable of the rich man? Maybe, but it would be a spiritual "torture" like in Luke and not a physical one, because the physical body is dead. However, "hell" and it's "torture" will be ended/destroyed in the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire will destroy the soul, which is why this is called the "second death".

The only entities which appear to suffer forever and ever are the Anti-Christ, his false prophet, and Satan.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

In my studies, I have found a few things which takes a bit to go into, but basically "hell" is the English translation for the Greek word "hades" which was understood as the place of the dead. Now Greek mythology is NOT Biblical theology, so the only thing you can take from that is the writters of the New Testament were simply saying that hell is where the soul of the dead wait until judgement.

One other aspect of the word "hell" is that the proper Name Gehenna is sometimes translated into "hell" also. This is wrong because Gehenna is the name of a geographical location in Israel (just like the Alamo in Texas) which was a site of national punishment for the nation of Isreal. Those verses with Gehenna in it are Jesus warning Israel of a coming national punishment, which happened around 70AD when the Temple was burned and Isreal dispursed.

As for taking the Bible "too literally", I'd rather stand before my Maker as having studied the ways of man and the Word of God and stuck "too literally" to the Word of God.
13 posted on 05/21/2010 7:51:18 PM PDT by ScubieNuc
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To: ScubieNuc

**Apparently, from the above verse, you can skip “hell” by dying at sea. **

LOL!

Your scriptures are accurate. I happen to disagree with your once saved, always saved point of view. Which in some of your quotes doesn’t pan out, because you have quoted about good works and evil works of the flesh.

I think we can both agree that there is a heaven. That there is a hell. And that God will be the judge.

Are you ready for the next post in this series — you guessed it — Purgatory! LOL!


14 posted on 05/21/2010 7:58:47 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
**Apparently, from the above verse, you can skip “hell” by dying at sea. **

LOL!


I'm glad you got my little bit of humor/sarcasm. : )

Your scriptures are accurate. I happen to disagree with your once saved, always saved point of view. Which in some of your quotes doesn’t pan out, because you have quoted about good works and evil works of the flesh.

Well, first, thanks for recognizing the Scriptures. I am wrong many times a day, but the Scriptures are not.

Second, I understand the theology of OSAS is not popular. I believe it is a topic Christians can agree to disagree on. The important thing is for each individual Christian to research all of the pros and cons and pray over it themselves. It isn't completely cut and dried, but from my studies, that is what I find to be where the weight of Scripture points. We'll find out in Heaven which side was right. Since this isn't really the topic at hand in this thread, I'm fine to leave OSAS topic alone for now.

I think we can both agree that there is a heaven. That there is a hell. And that God will be the judge.

Amen!

Are you ready for the next post in this series — you guessed it — Purgatory! LOL!

Well, I won't "gum up" your thread, but I will just say a few things here....One, Purgatory isn't mentioned in the Bible. It's descriptions and regulations are a Catholic Church doctrine to which I don't subscribe, so it is useless for me to argue about it (unless I was just into arguing for arguments sake, which I'm not).

The one thing I could accept is if you called the Christians trial of his/her works as mentioned in 1 Corinthians as Purgatory. Even though that name isn't used in the Bible, it will clearly be a time of hardship/trial as we watch/feel how our 'works' stacked up for Christ. That's not going to be a fun time for most, I suspect.
15 posted on 05/21/2010 8:27:41 PM PDT by ScubieNuc
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