Skip to comments.Catholic Mass revisions launch war of words
Posted on 04/03/2010 2:06:35 PM PDT by NYer
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"Grant us, Lord, to begin with holy fasting this campaign of Christian service that, as we fight against spiritual evils, we may be armed with the weapons of self-restraint," according to a new prayer for Ash Wednesday.
That language carries more dramatic punch than the current Ash Wednesday prayer: "Lord, protect us in our struggle against evil. As we begin the discipline of Lent, make this day holy by our self-denial."
Strange how generations of Europeans immigrants could understand the traditional mass, but this generation of Americans is too stupid to participate.
>>”Do these new texts communicate in the living language of the worshipping assembly?”<<
What a doofus.
Who cares about the “living language”? Back when our kids learned liturgical Latin, they did better in all aspects of education. How about we forget about “Catholic Ebonics” and get back to the idea that if some illiterate peasant in the 1500 could understand the Holy Mass, we sure can today. Even without the “living language”.
less than 2000 against it on Facebook?
obviously, the elderly “Nuns” who run womenpriest can’t use a computer
I am in favor of the new translation. Since Vatican II, priests have been taking all sorts of liberties with the Mass, including “inclusive” language and paraphrasing the text as it is written.
The new translation (from what I have seen) is much more faithful to the original Latin text. Plus, learning terms like “consubstantial” should raise the SAT Verbal scores of Catholic kids.
Now, I can only hope that the handholding during the Paternoster fade away as it so richly deserves.....
Reinventing what didn’t need to be invented.
They should never have messed with the missal in the first place.
I never understood why the Latin (Tridentine) Mass became pretty much criminalized after ‘62.
I have just learned that my alma mater, Fordham Univerity, offers a Tridentine Mass every Monday night at 9:15 PM.
Now, if the Jebbies are getting on the bandwagon, what could be next?
I have gotten out my old St. Joseph’s Missal, and will be attending Mass there right after Easter.
Gloria in excelsis Deo!
My mother used to work for Scandinavian Airlines. As a small child, she took me to Europe. Regardless of where we attended Mass (Copenhagen, Paris, Rome), we could follow along because it was the same Mass and it was in Latin.
OTOH, though, unless one understood Latin, the only way to follow along was with the English text on the opposing page. That meant recognizing hand motions in order to keep up with the priest. Also, it was a time when one attended Mass out of fear of condemnation to hell. The churches, though packed, were hot in summer because there was no a/c. It was also difficult to follow the Mass because there were no sound systems.
There is great merit in attending a liturgy celebrated in one's own language. Though Roman Catholic, I am a parishioner in one of the Eastern (Maronite) Catholic Churches. They followed the council's lead and translated their texts into English here in the US. The liturgical language of the Maronite Catholic Church is Aramaic! Now that would be a challenge to follow! As it is, the Maronites have retained Aramaic, the language spoken by Jesus, His mother and the apostles, as the language used during the consecration. We have several other prayers in Aramaic but, for the most part, the major portions of the liturgy are in English in the US. It is a magnificent liturgy that is chanted by both the priest and the congregation, at ALL the masses. There is extensive use of incense at each liturgical celebration, not just for high holy days.
Essentially, you are right. It does not take a liturgical scholar to understand the Mass but it becomes far more meaningful when translated into the vernacular.
‘62...last big change in the mass...isn’t that about the time they started letting homosexuals into the priesthood?
Maybe...the later sixties...still, the sixties ruined SO much...’bout time we went back and restored what was good.
Not sure what you mean by "criminalized". The intention was to translate the liturgy into the respective vernacular of the communicant. (see my post #10).
When I first encountered the new mass in its English translation, I was struck by the vagueness, even banality of the language. It seems to me that Trautman is opposed to the idea of beauty in language, just as he is opposed to beauty in architecture. No one really wanted this except the cabal who did liturgical reform, and now Trautman is depending on one thing: the people have gotten used to bad taste.
I am thankful for the use of English in the Mass. Being able to understand the words certainly was a great boon to me when I attended my 1st Mass 6+ years ago. :)
The vernacular ought not to be reduced to the dull and inexact. I have spent 40 years trying to figure out what “of one being with the Father” is supposed to mean?
But It all about duh libbing langwudge, yo. Time ta be celerbratens dem pastoralness no whaddam sayin? Yo Troutman I see ya yo!
“To what extent are the new prayers of the missal truly pastoral?” Erie, Pa., Bishop Donald W. Trautman wrote”
It’s a Catholic thing, you wouldn’t understand.
I grew up with the Latin Mass and, to this day, I still miss it.
Went to Holy Thursday “multicultural” Mass and it was not until the Gospel that I heard the first words of English spoken. (By the way, I live in America.) I do not speak Vietnamese nor Spanish.
And the people still complain about Latin being a foreign language. Sigh.
I don’t understand how it would be better if it were Latin and no one understood
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