Posted on 11/08/2009 8:11:33 AM PST by OneVike
God is a god of order and principles. He put alot ofthat in place when he made creation. Of course, we changed the game when we did the one thing he asked us not to do. so we are actually bound by some of the curses of the fallen world.
95% of the suffering in the world is created by mankind hurting mankind. (especially when you look at the plight caused to humans by evil rulers). so although i do believe in God’s providence and sovereignty...he would have to do 1000 miracles every day for each person in order to protect us from killing or hurting each other....
i hate to see folks constantly blaming him. even when you look at the other 5%—natural disasters—again, these are systems that were put into place to maintain the planet and our universe. yet we blame god when they affect us—sometimes in spite of knowledge which he has released to humankind that would help us control or avoid these disasters. so why do we constantly blame god for this as well?
That implies that Heaven is a ordeal that requires tough preparation.
I think life is more like an aptitutde test for Heaven
Why is it every time there is some 'act' of violence, everybody wants God to be held to account? He gave US gray matter and it is NOT His fault if the majority of His children will not used the very brain cells HE gave them to use.
How about we point that accusing finger right where it belongs to those who allowed this man access to our military family, when he already made it known he wanted OUT.
“Does that mean that Heaven will be even tougher?”
Nay, when you have the burden of sin/guilt/fear completely lifted and your eyes wiped dry by God himself and gaze upon all the beauty and treasures of heaven which will require an eternity to explore, then you will know eternal happiness that you have never felt in your best moments here on earth.
Yeah, but Job was stuck. He couldn't do much of anything until he physically felt better. Him praying for his friends seemed to be what triggered his bodily and financial restoration. But really, for the longest time, isn't it true to say that he pretty much wallowed in his own suffering? I mean, sure, he was asking a lot of questions and praying, but he was still stuck for a long time.
If we have the right to chose between right and wrong, there is a 50% chance that we will chose to do the wrong thing and thus suffer the consequences of our sin.
But this does not hold true for liberals and their elitist political representatives...1) they do not know right from wrong OR claim that the difference is a matter of opinion or a “gray area”, 2) they chose the wrong thing nearly 100% of the time, and 3) there is rarely, if ever, any consequences to those choices.
[[God is a god of order and principles.]]
That’s true, but I think morei mportantly, concerning death and suffering, is that God is the God of Justice- Justice demands righteousness- Righteousness demands a perfectly righteous sacrifice for all those who are not perfectly righteous (the bible tells us that noone is righteous- even hte ‘innocent’ who suffer)
Before man was created, God knew that in order for free will to exist, there MUST be the choice between good and evil, and because God loved us so wholly, He He allowed free wil ldespite the fact that free will would mean suffering and evil had to coexist. His pure justice meant that He had to judge evil and immorlaity and sin, BUT, He did in His wisdom and love, provide a way to avoid His judgement by accepting His Son’s perfect sacrifice to absolve of us of our sins once for all.
Since free will can not exist without evil present, it is necessary for evil to exist in order for man to show where his devotions lie- whether with God DESPITE the fact that sufferign takes place, or with the world, using sufferign as an excuse to reject God. Those who come to understand that God is NOT a vending machine, or a magic lamp that grants wishes and protection simpyl because we choose to follow Him, show that they love God inspite of circumstances- those hwo falter when trouble coems, reject God, are those who are only interested in a God that gives htem their heart’s desires-
Sufferign seperates the pretenders from the true followers, and actually, this seperation is reflected in marriage vows- for better or for worse’- the vow isn’t ‘I’ll love you ONLY IF you do such and such and such and such’ but rather ‘I’ll love you WHATEVER coems along’- of course a lot of people break their marriage vows, because they weren’t really serious in the first place, showign that they didn’t truly love hte person they were marrying, and proving they were only ‘fair-weather’ lovers.
Suffering sucks for sure, but htose that can love God DESPITE the circumstances, find a much much deeper love/relationship with hteir creator than would those who were basically forced into the relationship without having a choice- suffering brings out our TRUE devotions- and we’ll be hte much stronger for it IF we stay the course, rather than give up and accuse God of ‘being unfair’ for allowing us to suffer the consequences of our OWN choices when we brought sin upon us by eating the apple
We’re fickle human beings, always trying to pass the buck- to blame others for what we bring on ourselves- WE brought sin and sufferign into this world because WE decided we diodn’t want to obey God’s command, and because WE decided WE knew better than He what was good for us, but WE want to blame Him for what WE caused instead of takign hte blame as we should rightfully do.
Sufferign is a tricky subject- and peopel rightfully quesiton why God allows it- but when we examine ourselves, we discover whether or not we serve God because ofg what we think He ‘owes’ us, or because we love Him DESPITE our circumstances- and when we understand that His perfect righteousness and perfect judicial nature demand s justice, we see that WE simpyl reap what we sow- just as we would in society IF we were to break the rules here on earth-
Why?? To test and increase our faith. The more we rely on Him, the less we suffer.
Many place their faith in man’s ideas and ways rather than God.
To deny self...intellect, power and abilities...is a very hard thing for some.
“Him praying for his friends seemed to be what triggered his bodily and financial restoration. “
Thus the paradox. Some of the things God requires seems counter-intuitive because of our ingrained worldly value system. If we are suffering from persecution, we are to pray for our enemies. I suppose to give them a chance to repent but at the same time it is pretty difficult to ignore our own predicament and follow Jobs actions and ask why. Only through the Holy Spirit will we be able to overcome.
“We have free will but the wonder is why did God give us free will?”
It was passed down to us at the fall by Adam and Eve when they ate from the tree of knowledge between good and evil.
[[But really, for the longest time, isn’t it true to say that he pretty much wallowed in his own suffering?]]
Yes, He was human- just like us- he kinda 1/2 knew that God has a right to allow what He wants whenever He wants for His own purposes, and 1/2 didn’t understand, because cokmmon htought back then was that ‘whatever a man sows, so shall he reap’, and He’d only sowed good sead for a very long time, and didn’t udnerstand why God still alllowed the sufferign on him. His mind was in conflict- which is an entirely human response- but as you said, it wasn’t until he began praying for others- gettign his mind off hismelf exclusively, that God restored him- but we need to be careful here- God doesn’t promise to restore anyone regardless of our actions for others, or hte ‘good that we do’ for others- He may choose to restore, but hten again, for His purposes, may not too.
touche’
[[Job was healed by the grace of God because God wanted to heal him. There is nothing we can do, and that is what Job learned through his trials. ]]
Bingo! and again, it;’s important ot realize God may or may not heal us, and that His decision is not based on what we do, but on His Soverieng right as God alone to deal with His creation as He sees fit. In the end, Job didn’t know God was goign to restore Him, so that wasn’t Job’s motivation for repentance- Job repented because He loved God, and because it was the right ting to do regardless of the circumstances he faced
I write this as someoen who suffers and unfortunately wallows in ‘why me’ most of hte time- I do try not to- but find myself crying out ‘why God?” al lthe time- then I resign myself to hte fact that nothign is goign to change, and ‘just accept it’- (but I never truly do accept it- I just ‘give up whining for a time I guess), and I write this to remind me that I’m WAY off trtack in my htinking- Thanks for your insight and responses to put the perspective back where it belongs- I lose track of thigns because I get consumed by the personal experience of suffering, and everythign becoems about me, and I lose the love for fellow man because all I can focuss on is the pain and cry out’ ‘Why God?”
Once there was a man who was truly righteous and we esteemed him not.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.