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To: HarleyD

“”Think about that for a minute. How could Satan who was created as a perfect creature have a defect? Or Adam?””

It’s free will,Harley,or God would be forcing His love on us, and even worse-God would be forcing evil on lucifer to be a devil without anything lucifer could have freely done on his own

By saying that God willed evil to exist ,you’re saying God is NOT perfection.

Try digesting this...

That God is Universal Perfection By Saint Thomas Aquinas

AS all perfection and nobility is in a thing inasmuch as the thing is, so every defect is in a thing inasmuch as the thing in some manner is not. As then God has being in its totality, so not-being is totally removed from Him, because the measure in which a thing has being is the measure of its removal from not-being. Therefore all defect is absent from God: He is therefore universal perfection.

2. Everything imperfect must proceed from something perfect: therefore the First Being must be most perfect.

3. Everything is perfect inasmuch as it is in actuality; imperfect, inasmuch as it is in potentiality, with privation of actuality. That then which is nowise in potentiality, but is pure actuality, must be most perfect; and such is God.*

4. Nothing acts except inasmuch as it is in actuality: action therefore follows the measure of actuality in the agent. It is impossible therefore for any effect that is brought into being by action to be of a nobler actuality than is the actuality of the agent. It is possible though for the actuality of the effect to be less perfect than the actuality of the acting cause, inasmuch as action may be weakened on the part of the object to which it is terminated, or upon which it is spent. Now in the category of efficient causation everything is reducible ultimately to one cause, which is God, of whom are all things. Everything therefore that actually is in any other thing must be found in God much more eminently than in the thing itself; God then is most perfect.

Hence the answer given to Moses by the Lord, when he sought to see the divine face or glory: I will show thee all good (Exod. xxxiii, 19).


86 posted on 06/20/2009 2:38:57 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi
"It’s free will,Harley"

Free will is a sham...it's a lie. You are either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. You are either considered one of the wicked or one of the righteous. You are either under the law or you're under grace. There is no "free will" that allows you to bounce back and forth like a ping-pong ball.

"...or God would be forcing His love on us"

Ummmm...excuse me. Isn't that what He did with Paul? The ONLY way we'll accept Him is for God to take a two-by-four to us. You give us far too much credit and God too little.

AS all perfection and nobility is in a thing inasmuch as the thing is, so every defect is in a thing inasmuch as the thing in some manner is not. As then God has being in its totality, so not-being is totally removed from Him, because the measure in which a thing has being is the measure of its removal from not-being. Therefore all defect is absent from God: He is therefore universal perfection.

I would suggest that St Thomas Aquinas is at total odds with St. Augustine's writings:

Please note that St Auginas tends to be more philosophical than theological. He rarely uses scripture and I have never been impressed with his works. Is it any wonder that St Aquinas denied original sin. Augustine wouldn't have made that mistake.

100 posted on 06/20/2009 4:51:10 PM PDT by HarleyD
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