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To: Petrosius

“The priest is more than a witness of the liturgical community but the instrumental means by which God forgive sins.”

Is that why the Roman priest asserts that it is HE who forgives the penitent’s sins, because he is a mere instrument of God? You know that isn’t true. The Roman priest says “I absolve you”, not God absolves you through me. This claim of power is the equivalent of the similar claim of the Roman Church that its priests rather than the Holy Spirit actually change the bread and wine on the altar into the Body and Blood of Christ. Unfortunately, these claims of super natural powers make those men look more like magicians than priests and supplicants before God.

In any event, the role of the priest is made clear in the rubrics for confession in the Orthodox Church. At the very beginning the priest says to the penitent:

“My brother, inasmuch as you have come to God and to me, be not ashamed, for you speak NOT TO ME, BUT TO GOD, before whom you stand.”

When the penitent has finished his confession, the priest says:

“”My spiritual child, who has confessed to my humble self, I, humble and a sinner, have NOT power on earth to forgive sins, but God alone (etc)”

The priest is an icon of Christ, but not an Alter Christus, much less Christ Himself. Christ is the head of The Church and His ministry within The Church is accomplished through the priests and bishops. The priest has no autonomous power at all.

That Absolvo te of the Western confession seems to me to be the height of spiritual arrogance. As I said earlier, why would a mere instrument say that?

Here’s a link to a surprisingly good article on confession from the GOA website:

http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith8493

And here is one to a relatively common set of rubrics for confession:

http://anglicanhistory.org/orthodoxy/spoer1930/07.html


7 posted on 12/31/2008 2:48:36 PM PST by Kolokotronis ( Christ is Born! Glorify Him!)
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To: Kolokotronis
Is that why the Roman priest asserts that it is HE who forgives the penitent’s sins, because he is a mere instrument of God? You know that isn’t true.

Please do not presume to tell me what I know to be true or not true. The full formula is: "I absolve you of your sins IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, AND OF THE SON, AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT." As a lawyer I would think that you would understand the significance of these words, the priest acting as the agent of God.

That Absolvo te of the Western confession seems to me to be the height of spiritual arrogance. As I said earlier, why would a mere instrument say that?

Why, because that is the language with which our Lord described the sacrament:

Whose sins YOU SHALL FORGIVE, they are forgiven them; and whose sins YOU SHALL RETAIN, they are retained.

ἄν τινων ἀφῆτε τὰς ἁμαρτίας ἀφέωνται αὐτοῖς, ἄν τινων κρατῆτε κεκράτηνται.


11 posted on 12/31/2008 6:25:53 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: Kolokotronis
In any event, the role of the priest is made clear in the rubrics for confession in the Orthodox Church. At the very beginning the priest says to the penitent:

“My brother, inasmuch as you have come to God and to me, be not ashamed, for you speak NOT TO ME, BUT TO GOD, before whom you stand.”

When the penitent has finished his confession, the priest says:

“”My spiritual child, who has confessed to my humble self, I, humble and a sinner, have NOT power on earth to forgive sins, but God alone (etc)”

That Absolvo te of the Western confession seems to me to be the height of spiritual arrogance. As I said earlier, why would a mere instrument say that?

It would seem that not all, not even the majority, Orthodox would agree with you. From The Great Book of Needs used by the Russian Orthodox:

May our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, by the grace and compassion of His love for mankind, forgive you, child, N., all your transgression; and I, an unworthy Priest, through His power given unto me, forgive you and absolve you from all your sins, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

19 posted on 01/03/2009 3:01:11 PM PST by Petrosius
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