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To: GCC Catholic

the “Pillar and Foundation of Truth” is Christ, not the RCC nor the SBC. Men in both organizations lead people astray.

Any who conclude that works aid in the saving of a soul deny the sufficiency of Christ. He alone is capable of saving anyone from hell and nobody else is capable of helping Him. “Ye must be born again.” How much can the one being born play in the birthing? Every baby delivered from his mother is totally dependent on her (and those who aid in the delivery) for being born. He can’t make it happen nor stop from happening. “Ye must be born again.” No talk about earning new birth. Good works AFTER being born again bring glory to God, earn rewards in Heaven, etc. But one in the spiritual birth canal can do no good works.

If Christ isn’t sufficient for new birth salvation (the word salvation also includes the on-going salvation - keeping from sin - of the Holy Spirit, and the final salvation - being kept from the wrath of God on judgment day), then new birth will not take place.

Christ is sufficient! He needs no human, though He does condescend to use us to proclaim His gospel.

http://menofhonorministry.org/Discipleship/ChristSufficient.htm


185 posted on 07/02/2008 1:57:37 PM PDT by Manfred the Wonder Dawg (Test ALL things, hold to that which is True.)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg
the “Pillar and Foundation of Truth” is Christ, not the RCC nor the SBC.

It is the Catholic Church founded by Christ.

204 posted on 07/02/2008 2:48:07 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg

Sola Scriptura? Could you re-post that in your own words?


234 posted on 07/02/2008 4:26:45 PM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg
Christ is sufficient! He needs no human, though He does condescend to use us to proclaim His gospel.

Then, out of your own mouth, He uses us for at least one thing. If there is one, there can be others. He could have proclaimed the Gospel to us directly, too, writing it in the sky or something. Yet that would be pushing our free will to accept or reject Him too far, to the point where it would not exist. In like manner, He could directly rule the Church, but that would also destroy our free will (if God, clearly manifested as God, told any person on earth to do or not do some thing or other, who would really be free to refuse Him?).

Therefore, He has given His authority to Peter, the Apostles and their respective successors, the popes and bishops, in order, to a large degree, to preserve our free will in assenting to belief in Him. This should not be so hard to understand! It is not that the popes are infallible through their own human power, or the bishops, collectively, through theirs. No! It is a charism of God Himself that is imparted to them through His condescension, not because of their own power or even their own personal holiness.

Sometimes, in your zeal to ensure that God is thought of as the only one with power and authority, you non-Catholics get ridiculously impractical. Yes, only God has power and authority because of who He is; but to simply admit that He established a hierarchical structure called "the Church" in order to derivatively exercise His authority is hardly to diminish God! To say that He can't do this is to diminish Him!

Your worldview is either incredibly naive, or simply to dug-in to a set of impractical propositions to see the clear path of God's own choices. Clearly, He chose not to govern His Church, post-Resurrection, directly. One clear reason why has already been noted. Clearly, Jesus Himself could have personally written, with pen and parchment, every Word of the Bible, and then some. But He didn't, choosing to use sinful human beings as conduits for what He wanted to say, inspiring them, yes, but still using them as true authors, calculating into the mix their writing styles, education, facility with Greek (in the New Testament), and so forth. Why? Who can say? Free will would be not nearly as compromised if Jesus, appearing as a man, wrote all of the NT personally and handed it whole to the Apostles. But He wrote the NT through the sacred writers anyway, establishing a track record of voluntary "reliance" on mere men.

Papal authority is exercised in the same way, through the same set of Godly condescensions. God doesn't "need" us, but He to use us anyway. To rebel against that, and scream that you will never submit to the authority of a mere man - a sinner! - who arrogates to himself God-like authority is to entirely miss the point! Indeed, according to the general non-Catholic Christian worldview, man's actions are so inconsequential, and his salvation, once he imagines he has attained it, so divorced further from his actions, that one wonders why God preserves Himself in a certain level of obscurity instead of simply saving who He wills right from their creation and translating them directly to Heaven! The incoherency of the Protestant position on these points is truly astounding!

257 posted on 07/02/2008 6:04:08 PM PDT by magisterium
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