The case of the anti-Mormons

The Deseret News ^ | 6/30/2008 | Scott D. Pierce

[Utah Girl]

Viewers of tonight's season premiere of "History Detectives" will learn that a book about the horrors of "Female Life Among the Mormons" is a work of fiction.

And the woman who owns the 1856 volume will be "disappointed" by that news.

"History Detectives" (8 p.m., Ch. 7) is a fascinating series in which historical objects are examined to determine if they're authentic. (Tonight's other two segments feature a World War II diary and a coin shot by Annie Oakley.)

In the case of the 1856 book about the horrors of Mormon polygamy, Marcie Waterman Murray of Stanfordville, N.Y., bought it at an auction and wants to know who wrote it. (There's no author listed.)

"I was very moved by this book. It really stayed with me a long time. I've become fascinated with it," Murray says.

What stayed with her is a barbaric account, written in the first person, of a young woman who married a Mormon elder in New York and traveled to Utah with Brigham Young. She suffered the "abominations" of polygamy and the "degradation it imposes on females."

That includes one account of a misbehaving wife who was stripped nude, tied to a tree and whipped until "blood ran to the ground."

Enter Tukufu Zuberi from "History Detectives."

"You don't know if this is a real book. You don't know if it's really from the 19th century. You don't know what it is," Zuberi said in a phone interview with the Deseret News. "But it is a document which definitely offers a skewed view toward marriage among Mormons.

"It puts (women) on the level of being slaves. You can take it as something that's either laughable, looking at it today, or something that really provided fuel for those who were anti-Mormon back in the 19th century."

Without detailing the entire episode, Zuberi quickly discovers that this is not a genuine history. Among other things, it purports to tell the story of Joseph Smith's death and gets it flat-out wrong.

And the show's conclusions are clear. "It seems that our book is little more than pulp fiction, and shot through with historical errors," Zuberi says in the show.

The segment briefly outlines 19th-century LDS history, including the effort to demonize Mormons.

"Someone could write it today in order to kind of speak badly of the Mormons," Zuberi said. "Someone could've written it then to speak badly of the Mormons. And that's our task — to find out."

He does his best to track down the author, including using "some high-tech stuff to determine who wrote the book and determine the authenticity or lack thereof."

"This one I was surprised by. The Mormon story has a lot of twists and turns."

In 21st-century Utah, "Female Life Among the Mormons" seems silly, even campy. But, obviously, the book's owner thought — perhaps hoped — it was genuine.

Upon learning that it's fiction, she gasps and says, "I'm actually a little disappointed. But I'm glad to know the truth."

But it certainly seemed as if she would've been more glad if Mormon women really had been tied to trees and whipped.

[fproy2222]

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This big·ot Audio Help /ˈbɪgət/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[big-uht] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Origin: 1590–1600; < MF (OF: derogatory name applied by the French to the Normans), perh. < OE bī God by God] +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just because they fit the defination, it is impolite to remind them of it. ;>]

[SkyPilot]

I feel like I am talking to the bricks I picked up at Lowes today.

Well, anyway, take care.

Have a Happy Forth of July.

[Marysecretary]

The Holy Spirit speaks only, I believe, what the scripture says. There are times that scripture jumps out at you when you really need to hear something that pertains to your situation. It then becomes a ‘rhema’ word. I’m afraid that sometimes satan comes as an angel of light and if a person is not born again and reads their Bibles, they can be fooled by HIS voice, not God’s. The HS does not contradict God’s Word.

[SkyPilot]

Oh, but before you go, can you try one more time to explain this to me?

Thanks!

Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:10-12
___________________________________________________________________

"No salvation without accepting Joseph Smith.... If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth ... then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he can not enter the Kingdom of God." Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1

[SkyPilot]

For some reason I never see Mormons posting intolerant rants against other people’s religions.

You have not been paying attention.

Source: Here Joseph Smith said . . .

(Regarding Joseph Smith's alleged first vision where celestial personages appeared to him.) . . .) "My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right — and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight: that those professors were all corrupt . . ." (Joseph Smith, "History of the Church, Vol. 1, page 5-6.)

"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world." ("Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith," Compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith, page 270.)

(In questions directed to Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism. . .)

First -- "Do you believe the Bible?"
If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do."
Third — "Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?"
Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings, page 119.)

Brigham Young said. . .

"But He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong." (Brigham Young, "Journal of Discourses," Vol. 2, page 171. - 1855)

John Taylor said . . .

"We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense....Myself and hundreds of the Elders around me have seen its pomp, parade, and glory; and what is it? It is a sounding brass and a tinkling symbol; it is as corrupt as hell; and the Devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century."( Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 167 - 1858)

"Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (J.D.", Vol. 10, page 127. - 1863)

James Talmage said . . .

"A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". ("The Articles of Faith," Deseret Book Company, Salt Lake City, Utah. P. 182.)

Bruce McConkie said . . .

"With the loss of the gospel, the nations of the earth went into a moral eclipse called the Dark Ages." ("Mormon Doctrine," Bookcraft, Salt Lake City, Utah, page. 44.)

Joseph Fielding Smith said . . . "Again, following the death of his apostles, apostasy once more set in, and again the saving principles and ordinances of the gospel were changed to suit the conveniences and notions of the people. Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." ("Doctrines of Salvation," page 266.)

The Book of Mormon says. . .

"And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth" (1 Nephi 14:10).

"And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose foundation is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence. . ." (1 Nephi. 14:17).

The Doctrine and Covenants says . . .

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face" (Doctrine and Covenants, 112:23).

_______________________________________________________________________

You are an engineer? Me too. Aerospace. We are taught to examine and think.

If you want to get into the realm of what is True, then you must examine the facts I pointed out. Mormonism is calling all other faiths an "abomination." As a Christian, I have a right to defend my faith as much as anyone here. But don't tell me that the LDS faith does not post "intolerant rants."

They not only do it DAILY on Free Republic, and they have their own fenced off threads called "Ecumenic" and "Caucus" where we cannot even respond in kind!

Think I am joking?

Think again.

If you want to enter this debate, then please do so. But please, educate yourself about what is going on before hand.

Thanks, and have a good Forth of July.

[SkyPilot]

You’re not a bigot, you are simply intolerant of other religions - something unacceptable in these United States.

Bovine Scatology (BS).

False teachings are to be exposed. God said that.

Who are you again?

1 John 4:1 ESV
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Acts 15:1-2 ESV
But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” And after Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.

1 John 4:1-3 ESV
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.

2 John 1:7-11 ESV
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

[Osage Orange]

I don’t believe Mormonism, but I rail against the intolerance you display in this post whenever I see it.

Well there RF.....that's pretty intolerant of ya. LOL!!

I always find it extremely interesting...that those that cry the loudest about "intolerance"...are EXACTLY being intolerant themselves.

That's a liberal trait, BTW.

[SkyPilot]

I am so sorry, I gave you the wrong link to the LDS Daily Spam here on Free Republic.

Here are a couple of links:

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/lds/index?tab=articles

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/mormon/index?tab=articles

[SkyPilot]

I always find it extremely interesting...that those that cry the loudest about "intolerance"...are EXACTLY being intolerant themselves. That's a liberal trait, BTW

My experience also.

[RFEngineer]

“I always find it extremely interesting...that those that cry the loudest about “intolerance”...are EXACTLY being intolerant themselves.

That’s a liberal trait, BTW.”

Oh yeah, It’s SO intolerant to be intolerant of intolerance.

you truly don’t get it, do you?

[FastCoyote]

Whether that book is false, the impression is that there were no other books written that portrayed the same awful history. But in fact there are: “Tell It All” by Stenthouse and “Wife No. 19” by Ann Young (wife of Brigham who sued him and won).

I’ll post links later.

[RFEngineer]

“False teachings are to be exposed. God said that.”

Yes, and witches are for burning.

[RFEngineer]

“You have not been paying attention.”

Oh, I’ve paid plenty of attention. Being an advocate for one’s own religion is fine, but going out of your way to tear down another’s is a road to ruin. It’s not what this country was built on. I object to that behavior, and point it out frequently to the same old crew. Seems that the anti-Mormon crown are quite vociferous. They should stick to advocating their religion.

I wish there were more folks of faith that would stick up for them (and others) - because its not right what you all do.

[SkyPilot]

Yes, and witches are for burning.

If that is all you have to offer here, then I feel sorry for you.

We are not supposed to "mind read" here (the Mods passed THAT new law because the LDS whined as well), but if were to infer, I would guess you had no faith or love of God at all?

Am I close?

I often see Atheists and Agnostics pile on the with cults like Scientologists and Mormons against Christians. Why not? Christians are quite a target.

Good luck to you.

[RFEngineer]

“I am so sorry, I gave you the wrong link to the LDS Daily Spam here on Free Republic.”

Why don’t you ignore the posts, if they do not conform to your belief system - It looks like, from the number of views and replies that that is what most people do.

Why must you tell a young woman in open forum that Satan is stalking her simply because she is Mormon, and apparently devoutly so?

I don’t get it. I don’t see the open mockery of other religions - just Mormonism - (and, ok, Islam). I don’t understand where folks get off on this.

[RFEngineer]

Oh, on your picture.....are those Mormons, or Aerospace Engineers?

[fproy2222]

“No salvation without accepting Joseph Smith.... If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth ... then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he can not enter the Kingdom of God.” Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1

++++++++++++++++++++++

I hope you were fooled by someone else and you did not edit this yourself before you posted this quote from the Doctrines of Salvation.

Who ever edited it was very dishonest with the use of the three dots that indicate parts left out, or not left out as used here.

The first set of dots, with the period attached, pretends there is a break and something was left out. No such thing. There is a period after the section header (NO SALVATION WITHOUT ACCEPTING JOSEPH SMITH.)and the section itself.

The second set of dots leave out the last part of the sentence. The part of the paragraph that was left out explains how Joseph Smith's role is subservient to our Lord Jesus Christ.

( when he said that he stood in the presence of angels sent from the Lord, and obtained keys of authority, and the commandment to organize the Church of Jesus Christ once again on the earth,)

Oh ya, lets not forget the the ‘editor’ left out the end of the paragraph, the part telling you to study it out for yourself (not relying on creative editors).

For those who care, here is the whole statement.

“No salvation without accepting Joseph Smith.
If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth when he said that he stood in the presence of angels sent from the Lord, and obtained keys of authority, and the commandment to organize the Church of Jesus Christ once again on the earth, then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of god. It is, therefore, the duty of every man to investigate that he may weigh this matter carefully and know the truth.”

(Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954-1956], 1: 189.)

So, the pretense that Brother Joseph was trying to place himself next to Jesus is made up and not supported by the partially true evidence given.

Brother Joseph is only a helper of Jesus Christ..

I think this is another example of “Lieing for Christ” either directly, or just being fooled into doing it.

[Old Mountain man]

Aww, now you know it’s no fun without the “Lieing for Christ”.

[fproy2222]

By the way, you are not the only one using half-truths as evidence. It is often use to prove we are wrong.

Here is one I had to correct a while back.

“To: XXXXXX
John Taylor (Mormonism’s 3rd President)
“We talk about Christianity, but it is a perfect pack of nonsense ...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century” (Journal of Discourses 6:167).

Maybe it’s just me, but that tends to sound a bit arrogant.....un-Christian.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
After going to the source materal and reading what went before, what went after, and what went in the middle, I find that just taking these few words out of the whole, leads one to think it is saying something it is not saying. Did you know that ‘nonsense’ is the end of a sentence? Did you know ‘the devil’ is in the middle of the third sentence after ‘nonsense’.

Did you also know that President Taylor was talking about how THE MEMBERS OF THIS CHURCH, along with the rest of the world, were not being good Christians {But how can we teach others a lesson which we have not learned ourselves?}

(Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. [London: Latter-day Saints’ Book Depot, 1854-1886], 6: 167.)

Did you read the source materal, or did you just copy and past someone else’s misleading half truth?”

[MHGinTN]

Have you read the eighthundred plus words Joe Smith added at the end of Genesis in the King JMaes Bible, where he fabricated a prophecy of his ‘coming in these latter days’? When you call someone a deceiver, try to post the exact quote you claim was misquoted. Have a pleasant evening resty-fred.