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Italian Rabbinical Assembly: Suspension of Dialogue (With Catholic Church)
Rorae Caeli ^ | 2/7/2008 | New Catholic

Posted on 02/07/2008 2:22:50 PM PST by Pyro7480

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To: Diego1618
Please.......The scriptures I study were canonized by the Council of Jamnia (90 A.D.) and Our Lord Himself as stated in [Luke 24:44]. Notice....He does not include the spurious books of the Septuagint which automatically eliminates the Roman Church from any claim of Canon authority!

Do you find it interesting that Jesus and his brother Jude used a book that was neither canonized by Jamnia nor by NT canonizers. The book of "Enoch" where the concept of the "elect" comes from and also a book that whoever wrote the NT book of Jude quotes from?

41 posted on 02/07/2008 5:30:31 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: ArrogantBustard
I say it's obvious that the Church Jesus founded in the Gospels, the Church in the Acts of the Apostles, the Church to which Peter, Paul, James, John, etc. wrote their letters was and is what we now call the Catholic Church.

Your Church bears no resemblance to this New Testament Church described in scripture. Even with your claim of being able to change things.....as you go along....it's still silly to even claim any similarity. Most people see this. Unfortunately for you....you don't. You have been led to believe fairy tales!

Who are you to claim that I'm wrong? By what authority would you presume to do so?

I have the authority of scripture on my side. Wanna' debate?

42 posted on 02/07/2008 5:31:59 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: arielguard
Duck and weave, while raising the shield of arrogance, and striking with the sword of humiliation. That is not an answer.

Offer up some scripture to defend your position and I will read it.

43 posted on 02/07/2008 5:33:56 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Oh, Cheez Whiz. Constantine wasn't even a Catholic, let alone the "founder" of Catholicism. He was for most of his career a pagan.

This would be nominal for a founding father of your organization.

If you'd like to corkscrew this around for your own purposes, go ahead, have a bash at it.

You folks always get upset when someone calls your outfit for what it is....and always has been. Defend it with scripture and we'll see what we'll see!

44 posted on 02/07/2008 5:38:35 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Do you find it interesting that Jesus and his brother Jude used a book that was neither canonized by Jamnia nor by NT canonizers.

Jude is basically talking of "A" prophecy of Enoch....not the "Book".

45 posted on 02/07/2008 5:44:37 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618

1 Timothy 3:15

May the Lord bless you in your zeal. I will post nothing further to you.

Forgive.


46 posted on 02/07/2008 5:53:26 PM PST by arielguard (It's lost on me.)
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To: Diego1618
As far as the New Testament....the Apostles canonized each others work which is very easy to decipher.

As you say, PLEASE... During the years 100-400, there were so many versions of everything floating around, and so many disagreements about the canon that nothing was "easy to decipher" and nothing canonized itself. It took the synods of the Catholic Church in the 4th Century to sort everything out.

On a related note, I have a question for you... Most of the criticisms of that you anti-Catholic folks make against the Church are equally applicable to our Eastern Orthodox brethren, yet you folks never seem to worry about them. Why is that?
47 posted on 02/07/2008 5:53:53 PM PST by irishjuggler
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To: arielguard
May the Lord bless you in your zeal.

Thank you for your blessing. I would bless you in your search for truth as well.

48 posted on 02/07/2008 5:56:43 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618
Oh, for heaven's sake, I've got to finish the dishes and then go to bed. OK, then:

Check this out. Let me know when you're done.

Good night, everybody.

49 posted on 02/07/2008 5:58:27 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("We look for things. Things that make us go." Grebnedlog)
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To: Diego1618
Jude is basically talking of "A" prophecy of Enoch....not the "Book".

Well. Judes prophecy was taken from the book of Enoch. The same book found intact by Charles bruce in 1800's Ethiopia.

Compare please.

Jude.... 14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Enoch...Chapter 2, verse 1...Behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him.

Pretty clear to me.

50 posted on 02/07/2008 5:59:26 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Diego1618
Show me any reference to a "Council of Jamnia" between A.D. 90 and A.D. 1870. That gives you a good 1,780 years to look through. Then tell me how this is relevant to the collection and approval of the New Testament canon.

You don't have to do this right away. I realize you're busy.

51 posted on 02/07/2008 6:06:55 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("We look for things. Things that make us go." Grebnedlog)
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To: irishjuggler
As you say, PLEASE... During the years 100-400, there were so many versions of everything floating around, and so many disagreements about the canon that nothing was "easy to decipher" and nothing canonized itself. It took the synods of the Catholic Church in the 4th Century to sort everything out.

Well....as I said earlier...the Council of Jamnia got things back to where they were when Ezra and Nehemiah canonized the Hebrew writings....so probably, we should just concern ourselves with the New Testament writings then. Here is an Old Testament prophecy about the New Testament.

We do know whom was spoken of in [Isaiah 8:13-17] as it is in context between [Isaiah 7:14] and [Isaiah 9:6]. Our Lord's Apostles were given the authority to canonize by this prophecy: Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.

So....for any authority in this regard we should look to the Apostles themselves.....not some ecclesiastic body. As stated earlier....Our Lord Himself states the Old Testament canon in [Luke 24:44] and it does not include the "Deuts". Right there that tells you something about your qualifications to decide the canon. You guys include them!

On a related note, I have a question for you... Most of the criticisms that you anti-Catholic folks make against the Church are equally applicable to our Eastern Orthodox brethren, yet you folks never seem to worry about them. Why is that?

The Romans started it and the Churches of the East hung on to true doctrine for many years before finally succumbing to your Apostasy......so I cut em' some slack.

52 posted on 02/07/2008 6:29:24 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618

You rely on a council that consisted of the same religious leaders that were the opponents of Our Lord? No wonder...


53 posted on 02/07/2008 6:33:56 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Well. Judes prophecy was taken from the book of Enoch. The same book found intact by Charles Bruce in 1800's Ethiopia.

This is true. My statement only makes reference to the fact that this was also considered Hebrew tradition and Jude may not have been quoting a book that he carried around with him. I'm not arguing your point. Other writings are quoted as well...."Jasher"[Joshua 10:13] & [2 Samuel 1:18].

54 posted on 02/07/2008 6:40:41 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Check this out. Let me know when you're done.

I'd rather help you with the dishes! LOL

55 posted on 02/07/2008 6:42:30 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: arielguard
You really should reread what Saint Paul wrote about the Judaizers, and check yourself.

Could you a little more specific ?
b'SHEM Yah'shua
56 posted on 02/07/2008 6:44:06 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: XeniaSt
Could you be a little more specific ?

57 posted on 02/07/2008 6:45:06 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: Diego1618
This is true. My statement only makes reference to the fact that this was also considered Hebrew tradition and Jude may not have been quoting a book that he carried around with him. I'm not arguing your point. Other writings are quoted as well...."Jasher"[Joshua 10:13] & [2 Samuel 1:18].

Of course he didn't have a book he carried around. But 11 copies were found in the dead sea scrolls that matched what was found in ethiopia in 4 of the 5 sections. I'm sure these scrolls were read in essene circles. This book also describes chasms such as the one Jesus described when speaking of Abrahams bossom. Jude treated it as scripture.

58 posted on 02/07/2008 6:48:46 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Diego1618

You wrote:

“Nope....your friend Constantine did that....and the Church he founded...”

Okay, Diego, you’ve made this absurd claim before. Please document it.


59 posted on 02/07/2008 6:49:56 PM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: irishjuggler
"It took the synods of the Catholic Church in the 4th Century to sort everything out."

Virtually every book of the NT was acknowledged as scripture by Irenaeus in the mid second century in his seminal work "Against Heresies"

60 posted on 02/07/2008 6:53:50 PM PST by joebuck
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