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To: Alex Murphy
Trent strikes again!

Reiterating the traditional Catholic doctrine against the innovations of Luther and his imitators.

5 posted on 11/02/2007 2:49:25 PM PDT by Campion
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To: Campion
Reiterating the traditional Catholic doctrines....

Or just making it up out of whole cloth, whichever suits your fancy.

6 posted on 11/02/2007 2:55:42 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("Therefore the prudent keep silent at that time, for it is an evil time." - Amos 5:13)
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To: Campion; Alex Murphy; NYer; maryz

New Advent, 2 Maccabees 12: 40—ff.

2 Maccabees (it is relegated to the Apocrypha in Protestant Bibles that have it at all):

12:40. And they found under the coats of the slain, some of
Of the donaries, etc... That is, of the votive offerings, which had been hung up in the temples of the idols, which they had taken away when they burnt the port of Jamnia, verse 9, contrary to the prohibition of the law, Deuteronomy 7:25.

12:41. Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden.
[Omnes itaque benedixerunt iustum iudicium Domini qui occulta fecerit manifesta]

12:42. And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain.
[Atque ita ad preces conversi rogaverunt ut id quod factum erat delictum obliteraretur at vero fortissimus Iudas hortabatur populum conservare se sine peccato sub oculis videntes quae facta sint pro peccato eorum qui prostrati sunt]

12:43. And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection.
[Et facta conlatione duodecim milia dragmas argenti misit Hierosolymam offerri pro peccato sacrificium bene et religiose de resurrectione cogitans]

12:44. (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead),
[Nisi enim eos qui ceciderant resurrecturos speraret superfluum videretur et vanum orare pro mortuis]

12:45. And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.
[Et quia considerabat quod hii qui cum pietate dormitionem acceperant optimam haberent repositam gratiam]

With godliness... Judas hoped that these men who died fighting for the cause of God and religion, might find mercy: either because they might be excused from mortal sin by ignorance; or might have repented of their sin, at least at their death.

12:46. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.
[Sancta ergo et salubris cogitatio pro defunctis exorare ut a peccato solverentur]

It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead... Here is an evident and undeniable proof of the practice of praying for the dead under the old law, which was then strictly observed by the Jews, and consequently could not be introduced at that time by Judas, their chief and high priest, if it had not been always their custom.

16 posted on 11/03/2007 8:15:58 AM PDT by Frank Sheed (Fr. V. R. Capodanno, Lt, USN, Catholic Chaplain. 3rd/5th, 1st Marine Div., FMF. MOH, posthumously.)
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