Mitt's Mission

Newsweek ^ | Oct. 8, 2007 issue | Jonathan Darman and Lisa Miller

[AmericanMade1776]

For Mitt Romney, it all started in a two-story, wood-framed house on a busy street in Pontiac, Mich. Painted beige, encircled by an asphalt lot that would hardly hold a dozen cars, the building manages to look both decrepit and picturesque, like a million other urban churches across the country. Today it houses the Unity Church of Practical Christianity, but until Romney was 10, it was the Mormon church he attended with his family—at least twice a day on Sunday, and one night a week for youth group.

[MHGinTN]

Flying Inman Alert:

The Mormonism apologists are stuck defending their religion's heresies as if they are orthodoxy restored, implying obviously that Orthodox Christianity is apostate, yet these same Mormons want desperately to be considered Christians. Below is a bit more on this heresy regarding baptism for the dead. I post it for Inmans' information knowing full well that the blind apologists for this cult of Smithism will rush in to claim it is all mischaracterization and or false. Bwahahaha

[excerpted from http://www.irr.org/mit/baptdead.html ]
The fact that Paul’s mention of baptism for the dead is not an endorsement is signaled by the impersonal manner in which he refers to the practitioners: “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?” If the rite was a legitimate part of apostolic teaching, we might have expected the apostle to say “what shall you do . . .” or “what shall we do . . .”
Paul does elsewhere use something with which he disagrees to make a theological point. In 1 Corinthians 8:10 the apostle refers to eating meat in an idol’s temple without showing it to be wrong in itself; however, that he believed it is wrong is clear from what he says later in 1 Corinthians 10:21.

It is clear from Romans 9:1-3 and 10:1-4 that Paul was acutely conscious that many among his own Jewish kinsmen were outside the gospel fold. He speaks of having “great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart” for his Hebrew brethren (9:2), and declares that “my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved” (10:1). Certainly there would have been some from the apostle’s own extended family who had gone to their graves unbaptized. If Paul taught baptism for the dead, it is inexplicable that he would exclude himself from those who practiced the rite, as he surely does when he writes, “what shall they do which are baptized for the dead . . .”

Notice too that in verses 30-32 the apostle immediately contrasts the fringe group practicing baptism for the dead with himself and the broader Christian community: “And why stand we in jeopardy every hour . . . what advantageth it me if the dead rise not.” Indeed, the impersonal “they” contrasts markedly with Paul’s practice throughout 1 Corinthians 15, where he consistently addresses his readers as “you” (vv. 1,2,3,11,12,14,17,31,34,36,51,58), or, (including himself) “we” or “us” (vv. 3,15,19,30,32,49,51,52).

If we ask who the “they” in verse 29 refers to, the context clearly points us back to verse 12. It is those within the Corinthian congregation who are denying the resurrection, and whom the entire passage is written to refute. Then the biting aspect of Paul’s argument becomes clear. These false teachers are inconsistent: they deny the resurrection, yet engage in a practice — baptism for the dead — which is based on the hope of resurrection.
This is exactly the understanding of the text held by the early Christian writer Tertullian. Writing about A.D. 180, he makes this comment on 1 Corinthians 15:29 — “His [Paul’s] only aim in alluding to it was that he might all the more firmly insist upon the resurrection of the body, in proportion as they who were vainly baptized for the dead resorted to the practice from their belief of such a resurrection.”
Ironically, the Encyclopedia of Mormonism espouses this same interpretation of the verse: “. . . Paul clearly refers to a distinct group within the Church, a group that he accuses of inconsistency between ritual and doctrine.”

Thus, far from endorsing the baptism for the dead, Paul associates it with a group whom he has already identified as being in deep spiritual error. [excerpted from http://www.irr.org/mit/baptdead.html ]

The essay continues, pointing out the internal contradiction within Mormonism between the B of M and the other ’scriptures’ of Mormonism …

Book of Mormon is completely silent about baptism for the dead. However, there is also positive evidence from the Book of Mormon against the practice on at least two counts: (1) it teaches that those who die without hearing the gospel (the primary candidates for baptism for the dead) are alive in Christ, and therefore do not need baptism, and (2) it teaches that baptism is specifically a covenant for this mortal life, so that it would be completely meaningless to baptize for the dead.

On the first point, notice that Moroni 8:22 explicitly declares that the state of those who die without a knowledge of the gospel is like that of children who die in infancy:
For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also they that are without the law. For the power of the redemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing.

Therefore, on the same grounds by which the Book of Mormon rejects infant baptism, baptism for the those who die in ignorance of the gospel would have to be rejected.

The next verse goes even further, specifically condemning baptism for these two classes of individuals as vain and a mockery: “But it is mockery before God, denying the mercies of Christ, and the power of his Holy Spirit, and putting trust in dead works” (Moroni 8:23).

Baptism for the dead also conflicts with the Book of Mormon teaching that baptism is a covenant for mortal life. Mosiah 18:13 states, “And when he had said these words, the Spirit of the Lord was upon him, and he said, Helam, I baptize thee, having authority from Almighty God, as a testimony that ye have entered into a covenant to serve him until you are dead, as to the mortal body.”

According to these Book of Mormon passages, those who die in ignorance of gospel do not need baptism, and further, since it is a covenant for mortality, it could have no relevance to those in the spirit world.

Taken together with the silence of the Book of Mormon on baptism for the dead, these positive objections from its teaching on baptism constitute a serious contradiction between Latter-day scripture and practice.

[Spiff]

How come people are not worthy while alive and suddenly they die and are instantly worthy to have the work done? How come they can reject it while alive and suddenly cannot reject it when dead?

We believe that the deceased have a choice whether to accept the Temple work or not.

[greyfoxx39]

I think CC wouldn’t want your prayers. You sound vile and bitter. I doubt they would be very Christ-like.

I agree. You have to remember, JR, that though Christ left the 99 to search for the one, to mormons, the sin of apostasy is greater than anything. You have seen posts here threatening eternal damnation to those of us who reject Joseph Smith.

There is, to them only one path to "exaltation", through the mormon doctrines and practices.

[colorcountry]

My FIL has a brain tumor and is dying. He and his wife haven’t been through the temple to get their endowments or to be married.

It is my Mother-in-law’s contention that they can wait until after they die and one of their children will do it for them. She doesn’t want to go because she weighs like 380 pounds and is embarrassed that she might have to disrobe in the Temple. And as you and I know, she’s right. She would have to get nekkid.

[Utah Binger]

We believe that the deceased have a choice whether to accept the Temple work or not.

Death: Yea shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free!

[Utah Binger]

It is my Mother-in-law’s contention that they can wait until after they die

Best part about that is they will learn the truth when they die and won't care.

[greyfoxx39]

“When asked by NEWSWEEK if he has done baptisms for the dead—in which Mormons find the names of dead people of all faiths and baptize them, as an LDS spokesperson says, to “open the door” to the highest heaven—he looked slightly startled and answered, “I have in my life, but I haven’t recently.” The awareness of how odd this will sound to many Americans is what makes Romney hesitant to elaborate on the Mormon question.”

I'm just waiting for a reporter to ask THIS..."Mr. Romney, don't you think it is extremely arrogant for your religion to baptize, without any permission, millions of dead who believed in other faiths so that they can follow YOUR religion's doctrines?"

The US is already accused of wanting to rule the world in THIS life, then it would be accused of wanting to rule in the AFTER life.

[samtheman]

You’ve magnified a tiny bit of not-finely-tuned sarcasm directed at Hillary into a personal fight that you’ve taken up against me, when I didn’t address you in the first place.

Like I said. You are an idiot.

[samtheman]

At the risk of having another teledoodoo storm fall on my head, I have to tell you, I don’t get the crocodile reference.

[greyfoxx39]

We've withstood the wrath of mobs, the ravages of nature, wars, national and world-wide economic catastrophes, extermination orders of state governors, and even the combined forces of the Federal Government, which we now populate at the highest levels in numbers entirely disproportionate to our numbers.

THERE is the hidden agenda.

“In an attempt to live in the world, the Mormons were forced to modify their ideas of a political kingdom and to relegate them to the uncertain period of a future millennium, a context in which aspirations of world government would cause little alarm to suspicious Gentiles. In a logical attempt not to arouse the already excited non-Mormon world further, Church leaders thought it wise to publicize their true aims regarding the political Kingdom of God as little as possible. At times, the leaders felt it necessary to flatly negate political aspirations.”

- Klaus J. Hansen, Mormon scholar, “The Theory and Practice of the Political Kingdom of God in Mormon History, 1829-1890,” Master’s Thesis, Brigham Young University, Department of History, 1959, pp. 15-16

“... the Prophet [Joseph Smith, Jr.] taught POWER doctrine. POWER doctrine. This is what the Church thrives on! And this is what will help us to bring about the political part of God’s kingdom on earth!”

- Hyrum L. Andrus, Doctrines of the Kingdom, 1973, see pp. 40-60

“When we go to foreign countries, we teach a model constitution which has been drawn up by the Freemen Institute [LDS think-tank] here. It is patterned similarly after the U.S. Constitution. We’ve taken certain concepts of the Restored Gospel [LDS] and incorporated them into our working model of what an ideal constitution should be.”

- Interview with an anonymous official, Freemen Institute, Salt Lake City, (ca. 1981), as quoted in The Mormon Corporate Empire, by John Heinerman and Anson Shupe, 1985, p. 154

“Joseph Smith had himself anointed King and Priest… in a revelation dated 1886 given to President John Taylor, mention is made of Joseph Smith being crowned a king in Nauvoo. Not only was he ordained a king but the leading members of the Church were assigned governmental responsibilities. Brigham Young was to be president, John Taylor vice president, members of the Church were assigned to represent different states in the house and senate of the United States, and a full cabinet was appointed.”

- “Causes of Mormon Non-Mormon Conflict in Hancock County, Illinois, 1839-1846,” Ph.D. dissertation, BYU, 1967, pp. 63-65

SOURCE http://www.ils.unc.edu/~unsworth/mormon/counciloffifty.html

Mitt Romney along with all those government officials and employes boasted about have taken this vow in the mormon temple:

Each of you bring your right arm to the square. You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in this, (The Officiator holds up a copy of the Doctrine and Covenants again.), the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion."

Y'all want this kind of country for your children and grandchildren, ruled by the tracers and the Romneys?

[colorcountry]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sG8CnxesY0

Follow the Prophet....

[JRochelle]

She wouldn’t have to change in front of other people would she?

[colorcountry]

She wouldn’t have to change in front of other people would she?

I did when I went. Back in those days they draped a poncho that was open on the sides over your naked body, then reached inside to annoint you with oil. There was only light touching by little old ladies with clackety false teeth....nothing sexual - - but it certainly was uncomfortable.

Afterward the old lady helped you into your new magic underware and then helped you dress in your all-white Temple clothing, complete with a veil over your face.

[JRochelle]

That is creepy.

[Spiff]

I'm just waiting for a reporter to ask THIS..."Mr. Romney, don't you think it is extremely arrogant for your religion to baptize, without any permission, millions of dead who believed in other faiths so that they can follow YOUR religion's doctrines?"

I continue to be perplexed at such statements.

If you don't believe that the LDS Church is true and their proxy baptisms are invalid and a waste of time, then if you're right, nothing happens and the deceased haven't been baptized or anything. No harm, no foul, just a bunch of Mormons getting wet while someone mentions a deceased person's name nearby. So, then, I don't understand your complaint.

Either that, or you must believe that the proxy baptisms are valid, and therefore the LDS Church's beliefs and Priesthood authority are true and valid. Then, if you believe that, you wouldn't be complaining about proxy baptisms but joining the LDS Church.

So, I guess I just don't get it. It seems to me as if it is just something for the bigots and anti's to kvetch endlessly about and/or, as in the specific case of your post, to sow contention, division, and animosity.

“I have in my life, but I haven’t recently.” The awareness of how odd this will sound to many Americans is what makes Romney hesitant to elaborate on the Mormon question.”

He wasn't hesitant or ashamed, as you have implied. Proxy baptisms for the dead are usually, but not always, done by the youth of the Church. Those between the ages of 12 and 19. The other proxy work in the Temple is done by the adults. Although, on occasion, an adult will do some of the proxy baptisms. If you understood this then you would understand that Romney was not being hesitant nor was he ashamed of the proxy baptism work performed in the LDS Temples. He just had not done any recently but had done some in the past.

[colorcountry]

That is creepy.

They call it sacred. I call it bogus.

[greyfoxx39]

Wow, that is very illuminating, but not at all surprising.

[colorcountry]

If you don't believe that the LDS Church is true and their proxy baptisms are invalid and a waste of time, then if you're right, nothing happens and the deceased haven't been baptized or anything

Wow, that's just what the voodoo Priestess said when she made that little figurine of you, poured chicken blood on it and stuck it with pins. I just can't figure out why you'd have a problem with that. Someone doing cantation and hexes on your effigy shouldn't disturb you at all (and it probably doesn't). But I can guarantee you it WOULD bother many people.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Doesn’t that just ring of authenticity and the solemn act of participating in communion!?

[Spiff]

Wow, that's just what the voodoo Priestess said when she made that little figurine of you, poured chicken blood on it and stuck it with pins. I just can't figure out why you'd have a problem with that. Someone doing cantation and hexes on your effigy shouldn't disturb you at all

Well, except that proxy baptisms are NOTHING like that despite your wild-eyed mischaracterizations. The LDS baptismal prayer includes such phrases as "Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ..." and "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (see this scripture) and are nothing like what you describe.