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To: jo kus; blue-duncan
“”Is Paul talking about a specific person in Ephesians 2?””

No. He is not talking about an “individual” specific person....And Paul certainly is not making an “individual” name change of the people is talking to.
“Saved” does not mean Full of perfection.The word “saved” is translated from the Greek word sesosmenoi, which is a perfect passive participle. It means that this salvation took place at some point in the past and is continuing on in the present. This means someone who endured to the end .It does not mean someone is SINLESS.

Only “One individual person” was called “kecharitomene”
Only the Blessed Mother.

The angel Gabriel uses this as a proper name for Mary, and we all know the significance of names in the Bible, right? Names define who and what the person is. For example, Jesus’ Name means: “Yahweh is Salvation.” And, indeed, that’s what Jesus was and is.“kecharitomene” is what Mary was and is...She is full of perfection-completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace.

So, if Mary is “Full of grace,” how can this be if she was a sinner? One cannot be sinful and “full of grace” or “perfectly graced.” That’s a contradiction.

So, therefore, Mary must have been Baptized into Christ, (How else can a person be “full of grace”?) So, the only question is: When was Mary made this? Or, in “Protestant-ese,” when was Mary “saved” ? It must have been before Luke 1:28, right? So, when was it BD?

Saint Stephen is said to be full of grace before he was martyred in Acts 6:8. However a different word form is used to describe Saint Stephen. In the Greek the conjugated form of “charitoo” that is used to describe him is “charitos” not “kecharitomene” that is used in reference to Mary.

The only other time “kecharitomene” is used is in Ephesians 1:6
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9209fea2.asp
explains this well

Excerpt;
“The reason why the verb in Ephesians 1:6 does not imply sinless perfection, whereas the form of the same verb in Luke 1:28 does so imply, is this: The two verb forms use different stems. Every Greek verb has up to nine distinct stems, each expressing a different modality of the verb’s lexical meanings.(FH. W. Smyth, Greek Grammar (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1968), 108-109.) Ephesians 1:6 has the first aorist active indicative form, echaritosen, “he graced, bestowed grace.” This form, based on an aorist stem, expresses momentary action,(Blass and DeBrunner, Greek Grammar of the New Testament (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1961), 166. ) action simply brought to pass.(Smyth, sec. 1852:c:1.) It cannot express or imply any fullness of bestowing because “the aorist tense . . . does not show . . . completion with permanent result.”(Ibid., sec. 1852:c, note.”

I wish you a Blessed Evening!

9,034 posted on 10/14/2007 3:32:44 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: stfassisi; jo kus; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; xzins; P-Marlowe; wmfights

“No. He is not talking about an “individual” specific person....And Paul certainly is not making an “individual” name change of the people is talking to.
“Saved” does not mean Full of perfection.The word “saved” is translated from the Greek word sesosmenoi, which is a perfect passive participle. It means that this salvation took place at some point in the past and is continuing on in the present. This means someone who endured to the end .It does not mean someone is SINLESS.”

That is not the construction of the phrase. Salvation by grace is the gift of God, not of works. You cannot endure to earn the gift, it is given by God freely to whomever He wills. The verb construction is the same used in Luke and it is written to individual believers in the church at Ephesus and to the faithful in Christ Jesus, th elatter being descriptive, not commanded, who have been sealed by the Holy Spirit who was given to believers as the escrow (pledge) of their inheritance.

Now, explain how believers who have been saved by grace, a gift given to them; sealed by the Holy Spirit; indwelt by the Holy Spirit as a pledge of their inheritance; promised that Jesus would never leave them or forsake them; and that nothing could sepatrate them from the love of Christ, could lose their salvation.

As an aside, being “highly favored” or “full of grace” has nothing to do with sinlessness. It has to do with how God favors an undeserving sinner, like those to whom Paul writes that they have been saved by grace. As John said, (Jhn 1:16) “And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.”


9,036 posted on 10/14/2007 4:04:53 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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