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To: Forest Keeper; wmfights; P-Marlowe; xzins; blue-duncan; suzyjaruki; Marysecretary; HarleyD; ...
I can understand people's surprise at first reading your excellent explanation, FK. Which of us reformed Christians weren't at first put off and dismissive of the Biblical understanding that God has elected some from before the foundation of the world? Most of us never heard this perspective from our modern pulpits; it was contrary to what today's churches preach these days.

But then some of us read the Reformers, read the Institutes, read the Westminster and Heidelberg Confessions. But most importantly, we went back to the Bible and read it with new eyes and ears. And we heard, often for the first time, that God really is who He says He is in Scripture. If God is sovereign and the creator of all things, and if Scripture is true, then nothing is outside His perfect plan for all creation.

"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure" -- Isaiah 46:9-10

The logic of who God says He is is overwhelming. If God created everything, and God knows everything, and nothing is unknown to God, and if God is complete and whole and in need of nothing, then it follows that what occurs in life is exactly what God intends to occur, one way or the other. As Joseph learned...

"But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive." -- Genesis 50:20

And if God knows "the end from the beginning," then of course God knows the names of those who are His children and He has known this from before the foundation of the world because He decreed it. If those names weren't as God desired, then those names would be different.

This is the assurance that the world conspires to keep from Christians -- that God really and truly wrote the names of His children in the Book of Life from before they were even born, before they could do anything to merit their salvation...

"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth" -- Romans 9:11

The amazing clarity that falls into place when we realize that God is in control is a gift given to His children so that they will trust Him completely. To God alone be the glory.

I pity those who've put their trust in men and magick and magisteriums when the Bible is the voice of the Holy Spirit and all we need to do is listen and learn.

"Be not afraid; only believe." -- Mark 5:36

The RCC would have us believe (since we've seen RC posters even ridicule these words by Christ on this very thread) that Christ's instructions are not enough and that faith must be adorned with works and perpetual blood sacrifices and prayers to wooden idols. As a consistent Christian, I have to believe that God did just as He said He was going to do -- some He quickened and "delivered from evil," and some He did not...

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-15

Who really knows the heart of another man? Who knows how much idolatry is hidden within our minds which Calvin called "an idol factory?" Without the certain knowledge that God guides His children along every step any of us can become idol-worshippers, trusting in the traditions of men and our own leadings instead of the tradition of Christ's words and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

"But some truths ought to be kept back from the people," you will say, "lest they should make an ill use thereof." That is Popish doctrine. It was upon that very theory that the priests kept back the Bible from the people. They did not give it to them lest they should misuse it. Besides all this, remember that men do read the Scriptures and think about these doctrines and often make mistakes about them. Who then shall set them right if we who preach the Word hold our tongues about the matter?

The mass is a mass of abominations, a mass of hell's own concocting, a crying insult against the Lord of glory. It is not to be spoken of in any terms but those of horror and detestation. Whenever I think of another sacrifice for sin being offered, by whomever it may be presented, I can only regard it as an infamous insult to the perfection of the Savior's work." -- Charles Spurgeon


3,202 posted on 08/20/2007 10:01:33 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights; P-Marlowe; xzins; blue-duncan; suzyjaruki; Marysecretary; HarleyD
Great post Dr. E.! :)

Which of us reformed Christians weren't at first put off and dismissive of the Biblical understanding that God has elected some from before the foundation of the world?

Yes indeed, certainly not me. But then the idea of God's sovereignty started to keep repeating itself in my studies. My mentor, without EVER mentioning "Reformed theology" or Calvin or Luther, etc. kept saying to me "It's all about Jesus, not you". He said it so many times that I must have given him several looks along the lines of "yeah, I get it, thanks" :). But I DIDN'T REALLY get it until later, so he was right all along to keep pushing it. Then one day I heard of this "Reformed theology" thing and I said "EUREKA!, that fills in all the holes". And the rest .... :)

The logic of who God says He is is overwhelming. If God created everything, and God knows everything, and nothing is unknown to God, and if God is complete and whole and in need of nothing, then it follows that what occurs in life is exactly what God intends to occur, one way or the other.

Yes, and it's amazing how escapable inescapable logic can be sometimes. :)

3,708 posted on 08/22/2007 6:42:31 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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