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To: HarleyD

:::“a sort of esoteric pseudo-knowledge or mysticism derived from personal, direct spiritual experiences which they took to be Divine revelation”... That definition is not of the Church.

HD: That was your definition, not mine.:::

That was a description of Gnosticism, not the Church.

:::Calvin, however smart or equipped with whatever other gifts, faults and tendencies that he was, is not and never will be a Church Father.

HD: I’m sure he will be most appreciative.:::

Just a statement of fact. I’ll never be a Church Father either.

:::Because apparitions are private revelations, Catholics are free to believe in them without Church approval, so long as the apparition contains nothing which contravenes with faith and morals.

What a hoot!!! As long as the apparition agrees with what the Church says it’s OK. As long as a theologian agrees with what Church say it’s OK. :::

What appears to an individual in private is a private revelation of God. Or it could be hallucinations. Apparitions happened frequently in Bibilical times. Why would they stop? I don’t know the answer; I’ve never had one. But unless the Church actually investigates and finds that the apparition was sent by God, then it does not affect belief, theology or anything else. The Church is supposed to be the foundation of Jesus on Earth. Who else could make a righteous ruling on anything of Him?

:::The Church’s Approval Does Not Come Easily or Quickly

HD: HA!!! Isn’t Pope John Paul now being beautified?:::

Beautified? Alright, he was fairly infirm towards the end of his life and wasn’t the prettiest human around due to his illnesses, wouldn’t you say that this was kind of a cheap shot?

:::The Catholic Doctrine of Infallibility teaches of the pope’s inability to err on central issues of the Christian faith

Oh, hogwash. The Pope was wrong about signing those “get out of Purgatory” free cards.:::

Is that a central issues of faith? Were they a get of Purgatory free card? I don’t think so. We can discuss the doctrine of Purgatory further if you prefer. Just as you are fascinated by the practices and beliefs surrounding Purgatory, we are fascinated by Reformed practices and beliefs surrounding the “get out of hell” free cards that come in some sort of cosmic lottery administered by the Holy Spirit.


10,168 posted on 10/31/2007 7:06:22 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: MarkBsnr
What appears to an individual in private is a private revelation of God. Or it could be hallucinations. Apparitions happened frequently in Bibilical times. Why would they stop?

Beautified? Alright, he was fairly infirm towards the end of his life and wasn’t the prettiest human around due to his illnesses, wouldn’t you say that this was kind of a cheap shot?

Is that a central issues of faith? Were they a get of Purgatory free card? I don’t think so. We can discuss the doctrine of Purgatory further if you prefer.

...we are fascinated by Reformed practices and beliefs surrounding the “get out of hell” free cards that come in some sort of cosmic lottery administered by the Holy Spirit.


10,182 posted on 10/31/2007 11:52:39 AM PDT by HarleyD
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