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To: HarleyD
Not that I doubt your word, but could you point me to where this is official doctrine of the Catholic Church?

I think the Council of Trent on Justification commented that justification is more than an imputation - not disagreeing that it was not, but that it was not limited to an external change only. Clearly, the Scriptures tell us that man's nature changes when the Spirit enters and indwells the believer. Anthropology must then change.

Righteousness is imputed ONCE;

Do you think Paul thought that Abraham was once and only once declared righteous?

The difference is that the Council says man cannot be justified by performing the works of the Law by his own natural powers but they are still his works performed by him. Protestants believe all works are done by Christ through us.

Works performed without Christ have absolutely no supernatural merit. Only after the Spirit abides in us can our works be meritorious, and ONLY because of the Spirit's presence. Now, if all works are actually done by Christ through us, what role do we play? Remember, we are of a new nature. Do not apply the old man and his limitations to the new nature and what it can now do, quickened by the Spirit.

It does bother me because Catholics aren't the only ones with this misguided synergistic view. A lot of Protestants will tell you that THEY want to go out and win the world for Christ.

First, the Greek word for synergy is in the Scriptures. God is man's helper, and clearly, the Bible shows that God and man work together. Not as if they are two persons pulling the plow together, so that if one does something, the other does less. But man clearly is responsible for something, otherwise, he wouldn't be judged. Judgment implies that a person has a free choice and is able to do good or bad.

When Catholics or Protestants talk about going out to the world and win people for God, they certainly are not saying that they do it WITHOUT God. That is just the way we speak. Jesus' last words to the Apostles say the same thing in Matthew - "[you] go out to the world and teach what I have taught..." It certainly does not mean that God will be watching with no interest or participation.

Regards

10,000 posted on 10/27/2007 11:04:23 PM PDT by jo kus
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To: jo kus
Do you think Paul thought that Abraham was once and only once declared righteous?

Absolutely. Righteousness is a one point-in-time occurrence. Sanctification is an on-going process.

Now, if all works are actually done by Christ through us, what role do we play?

I think this would be obvious to a Catholic. Our role is exactly like Mary's. We are to say, "Behold the servant of the Lord. Let it be to me according to your word." Mary played no part in her work except submission. Likewise we play no part in our work except submission.

When Catholics or Protestants talk about going out to the world and win people for God, they certainly are not saying that they do it WITHOUT God. That is just the way we speak.

I would agree with you that most people, if you sat them down and question them enough probably believe this. But there is a subtle arrogance underlying our attitude and actions. James points this out when he wrote to Christians saying:

How many of us actually believe it is according to the Lord's will that we go and spend next weekend at Aunt Myrtle's?
10,008 posted on 10/28/2007 10:43:16 AM PDT by HarleyD (Ezr 3:13 the people could not distinguish the sound of joy from the sound of weeping)
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