Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins
What do have?.. money?, property?, concepts?, truths?, facts?, well SELL THEM.. SELL THEM to purchase the pearl of great price..
I did not realize that we were so far apart on this issue. I believe that it is Christ who paid the "Great Price" so that we could receive the free gift.
But then some of us read the Reformers, read the Institutes, read the Westminster and Heidelberg Confessions. But most importantly, we went back to the Bible and read it with new eyes and ears. And we heard, often for the first time, that God really is who He says He is in Scripture. If God is sovereign and the creator of all things, and if Scripture is true, then nothing is outside His perfect plan for all creation.
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure" -- Isaiah 46:9-10"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
The logic of who God says He is is overwhelming. If God created everything, and God knows everything, and nothing is unknown to God, and if God is complete and whole and in need of nothing, then it follows that what occurs in life is exactly what God intends to occur, one way or the other. As Joseph learned...
"But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive." -- Genesis 50:20
And if God knows "the end from the beginning," then of course God knows the names of those who are His children and He has known this from before the foundation of the world because He decreed it. If those names weren't as God desired, then those names would be different.
This is the assurance that the world conspires to keep from Christians -- that God really and truly wrote the names of His children in the Book of Life from before they were even born, before they could do anything to merit their salvation...
"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth" -- Romans 9:11
The amazing clarity that falls into place when we realize that God is in control is a gift given to His children so that they will trust Him completely. To God alone be the glory.
I pity those who've put their trust in men and magick and magisteriums when the Bible is the voice of the Holy Spirit and all we need to do is listen and learn.
"Be not afraid; only believe." -- Mark 5:36
The RCC would have us believe (since we've seen RC posters even ridicule these words by Christ on this very thread) that Christ's instructions are not enough and that faith must be adorned with works and perpetual blood sacrifices and prayers to wooden idols. As a consistent Christian, I have to believe that God did just as He said He was going to do -- some He quickened and "delivered from evil," and some He did not...
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-15"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who really knows the heart of another man? Who knows how much idolatry is hidden within our minds which Calvin called "an idol factory?" Without the certain knowledge that God guides His children along every step any of us can become idol-worshippers, trusting in the traditions of men and our own leadings instead of the tradition of Christ's words and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
The mass is a mass of abominations, a mass of hell's own concocting, a crying insult against the Lord of glory. It is not to be spoken of in any terms but those of horror and detestation. Whenever I think of another sacrifice for sin being offered, by whomever it may be presented, I can only regard it as an infamous insult to the perfection of the Savior's work." -- Charles Spurgeon"But some truths ought to be kept back from the people," you will say, "lest they should make an ill use thereof." That is Popish doctrine. It was upon that very theory that the priests kept back the Bible from the people. They did not give it to them lest they should misuse it. Besides all this, remember that men do read the Scriptures and think about these doctrines and often make mistakes about them. Who then shall set them right if we who preach the Word hold our tongues about the matter?
Nope. Where do you get that?
Christ died for everyone,that includes the people who ended up in hell.
By your standard all one has to to is just believe in Christ and continue to sin all they want and God HAS to accept them into heaven
I wonder how many people who are in hell thought the same thing?
BTW, When we die completely to the will Christ our "works" are in Christ.
You seem to be confused about what works really are.
He DID pay that price.. but that does not mean a price is not expected OF YOU..
Example.. Parable of the "Rich young ruler that was wealthy" AND "the Talents" AND several other parables.. Jesus through parable indicates "WE" must pay a price to "pick up our OWN cross and follow him".. If you're "poor in spirit" then the "price" is less meaningful TO YOU.. If you're "rich in spirit" then the price is more costly.. TO YOU.. The metaphor is schere genius I would say.. and puts the concepts of "rich" and "poor" in proper context..
You have missed that people don't sin as much as people ARE SIN..
Humans ARE SIN.. from the top of thier head to the bottom of their feet..
Including YOU.. Thats WHY......
"You MUST be born again"... -Jesus... Duuugh..
As Charles Spurgeon came to realize, what specifically has God not helped us with in our coming to salvation? God causes us to repent. He causes us to pray. He causes us to ask forgiveness. It is through His empowerment and His Holy Spirit that we are able to do any of this.
In 1Peter 3:19, Christ preached to the spirits in prison. What spirits? What prison? We will become pure spirits only after we die, so the spirits have to be the spirits of the dead. Prison cannot mean Heaven, and souls in hell are lost forever. Prison must mean a third place.
1Peter 4:6, the Gospel was preached "even to the dead". Again, where were these dead?
Matthew 12:32, "...but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him either in this world or in the world to come." This passage alludes to another world in which some sins will be forgiven. What other world? Again it could not be either Heaven or hell. Hebrews 12:23, "...and to the Church of the Firstborn who are enrolled in the heavens, and to GOD, THE JUDGE OF ALL AND TO THE SPIRITS OF THE JUST MADE PERFECT."
We see from Revelation 21:27 that nothing imperfect will enter heaven, and in Hebrews 12:23, the spirits of the just are made perfect. Revelation 22:14 shows that there will be a cleansing before admission to the tree of life and entrance through the gates of the city. Where will all of this happen if not in a third place?
I have a friend who is a missionary to pastors in these countries. He reports that the Chinese christians are in the millions and more and more coming every day. He says the same about Africa and the Middle East. He was in Bethlehem for a number of years ministering to Jews there. He and his staff were arrested in China but they were let go. God is at work for sure in these ‘hidden’ nations. He loves the Muslims and is at work now in their lives. I don’t fear a Muslim takeover anymore because I know God has a plan for them as well as for us. He really IS in control.
That, my friend, is CATHOLIC Theology. That somehow when a priest forgives a man's sins, that he is then absolved and God has to do what the priest says.
The protestant belief is that God is not obligated to do anything. The fact is that if someone professes to believe in Christ and then continues in sin, then that sin is evidence that they do not believe in Christ. God is not obligated to accept you or me or anyone into heaven. Those whom he chooses to allow in are the ones who will be allowed in.
I wonder how many people who are in hell thought the same thing?
There's going to be a lot of people in Hell who thought they were good enough to make it into heaven. I suspect that number is going to be higher than the number who erroneously believed that they had a saving faith in Christ.
You seem to be confused about what works really are.
You seem to be confused about what those works will accomplish.
I don’t think God is ever surprised.
Do you use this to justify sin?
Dying completely to the will of God should be constant.
Not just running around saying your "Born Again" and accepting sin as who we are.
Amen, hosepipe.
I've been following this conversation, and Marlowe never once said anything like the above underlined section. You added that on your own.
Incidentally, the Apostle Paul reports being accused of the same thing: 8 Why not say--as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say--"Let us do evil that good may result"? Rom 8:3
That puts Marlowe in some pretty lofty company, doesn't it? But it suggests that Marlowe's being misunderstood over exactly the same thing that Paul's adversaries misunderstood.
It doesn't take a whole lot of logic to realize the poverty of that statement.
If Christ died for a man and paid for every one of his sins and cleansed that man of his transgressions with His blood, and that man STILL burns in hell, just what does that say about the efficacy and strength of Christ's sacrifice?
It's a ludicrous argument. Christ's blood was sufficient for all the world, but efficient for only those who are His.
Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin." -- Psalms 51:1-2"Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
"Wash me thoroughly." Not conditionally. Not partially. Not temporally. "Thoroughly."
"She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet." -- Proverbs 31:21
Shall I worry? Is my household clothed with the blood of Christ or not?
The Bible ends that confusion.
Works and "all our righteousnesses" are "as filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6).
Amen.
"Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple." -- Psalm 65:4
The Works in Christ Glorify God. When we follow the will of God there is going to be works of love. This is how you can tell if Christ is using you or not. We do not expect self gain for any of it! .
Suffering and trials is also another way that we know God is with us. If you have no suffering and trails then something is wrong because it is through these trials that we grow in Christ.
This is a message that the mega churches avoid because it does not sell
Christianity is not supposed to be easy,Dear Brother It is NOT easy to deny ourselves to the will of God,especially when it means a cross in our lives
What spirits?.. The nephlim or ANGELS.. fallen angels.. The reference is to before and during Noahs time(s)..
[.. 1Peter 4:6, the Gospel was preached "even to the dead". Again, where were these dead?..]
You quoted the verse WRONG,, "WAS preached to those that are NOW dead" is the proper rendering..
[.. Matthew 12:32, "...but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him either in this world or in the world to come." This passage alludes to another world in which some sins will be forgiven. What other world? Again it could not be either Heaven or hell. ..]
No it don't.. it says NOT forgiven.. because sin forgiveness is a NOW thing.. You've streached this verse wrongfully..
[.. Hebrews 12:23, "...and to the Church of the Firstborn who are enrolled in the heavens, and to GOD, THE JUDGE OF ALL AND TO THE SPIRITS OF THE JUST MADE PERFECT." ..]
A Non sequiter.. this does not relate.. The "church" does not forgive sin.. ever..
[.. We see from Revelation 21:27 that nothing imperfect will enter heaven, and in Hebrews 12:23, the spirits of the just are made perfect. Revelation 22:14 shows that there will be a cleansing before admission to the tree of life and entrance through the gates of the city. Where will all of this happen if not in a third place? ..]
Where and when will this happen?.. After being born again through sanctification(a process) after that.. and could be a purging of "things" in our minds and hearts during the conversion to a spiritual BODY.. But I don;t know neither do you or anybody else..
NOTE: purgatory was and is now pagan sillyness.. or worse.. and should be purged from christian contact.. Only ONE of many things that should be purged/flushed.. from apostate thought..
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