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Our Mormon Brothers?
Reformed Evangelist ^ | May 14th, 2007 | Jeff Fuller

Posted on 07/05/2007 3:00:33 AM PDT by Gamecock

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To: restornu

In the spirit of you sharing a quote from the Book of Mormon I’d like to share a quote from Frodo in the Lord of the Rings. “I know what I have to do, Sam. The ring was entrusted to *me*. It’s my task, mine, my own!” Just like King Benjamin, Frodo is a well-meaning and caring individual. And just like Benjamin, Frodo is fictional and will always be fictional.

But alas I no longer think the #1 problem for the Mormon church is that the Book of Mormon is fictional. Their #1 problem above all others that is screaming at the top of its lungs is simply that it FAILS TO TELL THE TRUTH. Its absurd to what extent the church goes to in its efforts to whitewash its history. For example, Boyd K. Packer openly advocates that seminary teachers ought to not tell their students the truth on church history. As a result there are many who are in the church who are very misled on the church’s past. And its especially important if they want credibility that they learn their history and be prepared to answer questions honestly. Most people really won’t judge Mormons so much by how difficult their claims are to believe, but by how completely honest they are with them. So when questions come up about Mormonism I hope you won’t commit sins of omission in trying to hide or coverup any church history/doctrines. Just tell it the way it is and you’ll gain more respect from those who are honest seekers of truth.


341 posted on 07/07/2007 7:45:29 PM PDT by Degaston
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To: Degaston

You are so absolutely correct. It was discovering that the Church lies about its history that led me away. God’s Church absolutely cannot lie, if it does, it cannot be from God.

Today, with the advent of the internet it is imperative for the Church to deal with its issues honestly. Church apologetics may work on TBMs, but it doesn’t work on those with questions. That tactic will definitely NOT work with the voting public who are not LDS.


342 posted on 07/07/2007 8:50:10 PM PDT by colorcountry (To pursue union at the expense of truth is treason to the Lord Jesus. - Charles Haddon Spurgeon -)
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To: lupie
This thread is about whether or not Mormonism is Christian. You just proved that it is not.

My goodness, are you still beating that drum?

Because I haven't been following your posts, I do not know whether you have provided us a definition of Christian. Without such a definition, it is silly to say that Mormonism is not Christian.

The rest of your post is disappointing stuff. Your charges of blasphemy and heresy amount to nothing more than name-calling. If that is the best you have to offer, please leave me out of the discussion.

343 posted on 07/07/2007 9:01:10 PM PDT by Logophile
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To: restornu
The instructions from the Prophet Joseph Smith April 2, 1843

Thank you for the clarification.

As a Baptist I can't accept the writings of a man 1700-1800 years after the fact as Scripture. The Scriptures were completed before the last Apostle died. They may not have been compiled in the order we have today, but they had been written.

Do Mormons consider the books "discovered", or written by Joesph Smith as Scripture?

344 posted on 07/07/2007 9:02:00 PM PDT by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: DelphiUser; SeaHawkFan
Anyway, yes, I personally believe that at some point in the eternities God was once a Man living on a world similar to ours.

I hope you don't mind me jumping in, but if this is a commonly held belief of Mormons why would you consider yourselves to be Christians, or for that matter want to be called Christians.

Different Christian groups have a great many disagreements, but they all agree that God preexisted everything none believe God "evolved".

345 posted on 07/07/2007 9:17:36 PM PDT by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: wmfights
If you haven't seen it, here is a site (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/jst/contents) where Smith's rewriting of the Bible is cataloged as 'the Joseph Smith Translation ... decide for yourself whether he is a powerful deceiver.
346 posted on 07/07/2007 9:24:50 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for those in the womb.)
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To: colorcountry; Degaston; Logophile; Dr. Eckleburg; MHGinTN
Today, with the advent of the internet it is imperative for the Church to deal with its issues honestly. Church apologetics may work on TBMs, but it doesn’t work on those with questions. That tactic will definitely NOT work with the voting public who are not LDS.

What I find in reading the posts from the mormons here is that they seem to be describing an entirely different church from the one I grew up in, and it has been only 50 short years.

The denial of the progression to become a god is especially noticeable. That is something that was continually stressed in church lessons and talks in my day. I have also seen a certain trend among some to speak openly of personal spiritual revelations, which I do not recall hearing before....it used to be that was left to the prophet, and for a member to claim such personal gifts would have been frowned on.

Another odd thing is the drive to be known as "Christian", being accepted in the larger Christian community now. There was much pride in being different in the past, because of the firm belief that all the other churches were wrong. I'm sure that in testimonies you can still hear the phrase, "I'm thankful for the one, true church." If this is really believed, why would you want to be lumped in with all the others? It makes no sense to me.

I see much avoidance from apologists when asked a direct question of simple basic beliefs, as though it is something to be hidden from public view. In the same way, I have noticed some of Romney's answers to be avoidance rather than factual.

I think that what has happened is the "milk before meat" attitude has become widespread nowadays, and it just doesn't work with the present easily available information. It is a pleasant surprise when someone just flat out states their beliefs without misdirection and avoidance.

347 posted on 07/07/2007 9:36:54 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 ("We don't want to open a box of Pandoras." - Bruce King former governor of NM, DEM)
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To: restornu; lupie
Most are busy earning a living to support their family and do their church calling and being good neighbors and citizen.

I do appreciate your patient replies. Clearly if I was given a choice of neighbors between a Mormon family and a Muslim family I would want the Mormons to be my neighbor. However, that would not mean they are Christians.

348 posted on 07/07/2007 9:41:39 PM PDT by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: MHGinTN
Thanks for the link.

I had thought that it was just the Book of Mormon that had been added to the Old and New Testament.

349 posted on 07/07/2007 9:47:08 PM PDT by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: colorcountry; Utah Girl

...now your story continues to evolve


350 posted on 07/07/2007 9:48:29 PM PDT by restornu
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To: wmfights

A blatant example is the portion of Genesis chapter 50 which Smith added from verse 24 onward (12 completely fabricated verses, with the fabrication started in the already existing verse 24) in his false prophet efforts to fabricate a prophecy of his advent ‘in these latter days.’


351 posted on 07/07/2007 9:50:05 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for those in the womb.)
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To: wmfights

The Book of Mormon is recorded of the descendants of Joseph of Egypt that migrated to the Western Hemisphere 600 BC

The Bible is a record of the descendants of Judah

Ezek 37
15 ¶ The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:

17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

18 ¶ And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

These are the things I believe in and I need no validate from those who’s manners and actions speak for themselves.


352 posted on 07/07/2007 10:00:57 PM PDT by restornu
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
I asked: How does the Deification of Man diminish God?
You answered: Let me count the ways...

"For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God" -- Exodus 34:14


I am not asking any of My God's creations to worship me. No one on this earth should be worshiping anyone but their creator God. However, If a person from this earth should begin to create things after an eternity of creation, would This person not be the God of his creations?

You said: Men do not become God by being Christians. Through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit, we become more and more Christ-like. But we always remain human beings, fallen sinners who are unable to save ourselves and in need of a Savior who will clothe us in His righteousness, His obedience, His mercy.

So to you when Jesus said we were God's children this was a metaphor?
Why was Adam created in God's image?
PSALMS 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? I believe as the Jews believed, as the apostles believed that we are indeed The literal sons and daughters of God, and as such we will if we do not defile ourselves, Grow up to be "Like him".

You said: Your error is the basic lie of the occult -- that men can become gods.

You need to click on my name at the bottom of this post and look up the links on my page to Arianism, and Hippolytus, this was an original belief of the early Christian Church and was lost over the ages, the Catholics have tons of documents about the diefication of Man, you are barking up the wrong tree on this one.

You said: We are saved by Christ within us, not by our becoming Christ ourselves.

Mormonism does not teach that we become Christ ourselves. where on earth did you get such a notion?

You said: It's a distinction upon which our salvation turns.

It's a distinction without a difference since we don't teach it either.
353 posted on 07/07/2007 10:34:10 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: 1000 silverlings
The following taken from your post cracked me up so bad I just had to respond ROTFLOL!

Mormen men get to be God. I don’t think women do.

You are absolutely correct, they are Goddesses, it's a gender thing...

They don’t even get “called up” out of the graves lest their husbands decide they do.

LOL! there is no provision for a man not to call his wife, unless he is unworthy, and if he is she is called by the next worthy male in the patriarchal order going up toward Adam. This is a red herring if ever I saw one.

So their “Christ” (and I suspect J Smith be he) doesn’t save anybody.

Joseph Smith does not save anyone, Jesus Christ, the son of God has already done that on the cross.

Mormons do not believe in a personal relationship with Christ, and no wonder, they don’t know who He is.

That's funny, I have a great relationship with Jesus, he is my elder brother, my savior, my lord and my God, I have lots of relationships with him.

With the understanding and clarity, you have shown here about the Mormon Church, you should stop the next missionaries you see and ask for the discussions, just so you would know what we teach.
354 posted on 07/07/2007 10:43:58 PM PDT by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser
"there is no provision for a man not to call his wife, unless he is unworthy, and if he is she is called by the next worthy male in the patriarchal order going up toward Adam."

Matthew 22:29-30

Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

355 posted on 07/08/2007 4:24:55 AM PDT by Enosh (†)
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To: restornu

“The Book of Mormon is recorded of the descendants of Joseph of Egypt that migrated to the Western Hemisphere 600 BC

The Bible is a record of the descendants of Judah”

One of the false foundation stones of mormonism, perfectly
expressed resty. Nor does Ezekiel bear out that falsehood.


356 posted on 07/08/2007 4:38:09 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: wmfights; DelphiUser; SeaHawkFan
'but they all agree that God preexisted everything none believe God "evolved".'

Exactly.

John 8:57-58

"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

This doesn't jive too well with Mormonism.

357 posted on 07/08/2007 4:44:59 AM PDT by Enosh (†)
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To: MHGinTN

Yet ANOTHER Mormon thread!?

I would be extemely averse to becoming entangled in yet another sticky TarBaby!

358 posted on 07/08/2007 4:48:09 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu

...now your understanding of my story continues to evolve....


359 posted on 07/08/2007 6:16:08 AM PDT by colorcountry (To pursue union at the expense of truth is treason to the Lord Jesus. - Charles Haddon Spurgeon -)
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To: DelphiUser
>> you should stop the next missionaries you see and
>> ask for the discussions, just so you would know what
>> we teach. They could always go to http://www.lds4u.com too for the same information. I'm wondering whether Intellectual Reserve, Inc. (the church's company that owns all the copyrights to their publications) will have the Kirton & McConkie law firm send a nastygram to the ISP hosting this website in order to hide the truth from the honest seekers of truth online? See http://tinyurl.com/2boxwl for an example of the efforts of the LDS church to hide the truth about itself from the world through Intellectual Reserve, Inc. (IRI) and Kirton & McConkie (KAM) . Imagine what could happen to our country if the powers of the presidency were entrusted to someone who is seriously keeping a covenant to consecrate everything they have to the LDS church. American voters will have to decide if they want to risk their online freedoms to the IRI-KAM philosophy on the control of information.
360 posted on 07/08/2007 6:47:03 AM PDT by Degaston
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