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Thank you Ray! The short version is "one way to grow the church without God" = QUENCH THE HOLY SPIRIT

I always cringe when people put such an emphasis on leadership skills. What 'leader' in the Bible came with leadership skills? God chooses the foolish to confound the wise, the humble to put to shame the proud. The outcast in order to humiliate the movers and shakers and influential members of the community. In contrast, all these purpose driven/seeker sensitive church growth types emphasize getting in bed with the influential, the proud, the number counters, movers and shakers.

1 posted on 07/03/2007 3:40:02 PM PDT by Terriergal
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To: Terriergal

I just listened to Bob DeWaay’s mp3 entitled Need for the Elders Guarding the Sheep. In it he discussed has Jesus did not give the people what they wanted (an endless supply of bread and fishes) but what they needed - a savior. Powerful discussion at Critical Issues Commentary.


2 posted on 07/03/2007 4:13:21 PM PDT by GOPPachyderm
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To: Terriergal
Seems to me I recall Jesus saying something about this, "I will build My church, and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it."

Of course, the "I" refers to Jesus, not the person reading the verse!

3 posted on 07/03/2007 4:45:21 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: Terriergal

(Acts 2:47 KJV) Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

The only program that truly works.


4 posted on 07/03/2007 6:21:06 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Terriergal
I always cringe when people put such an emphasis on leadership skills. What 'leader' in the Bible came with leadership skills? God chooses the foolish to confound the wise, the humble to put to shame the proud.

You mean like this? This is my favorite.

Acts 4:13When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.

Mind you they were broke too. Gave all their stuff away in chapter 2. In chapter 3 we have, 6Then Peter said, "Silver or gold I do not have, but what I have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk."

This just makes me laugh!

5 posted on 07/03/2007 9:42:28 PM PDT by uptoolate (How can a Holy, Righteous, and Just God NOT kill me for what I said, thought and did yesterday)
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To: Terriergal

Isn’t church supposed to e about God? Why would you want to growa church without God?

Nonetheless, some intersting and useful church growthtips here.


6 posted on 07/03/2007 10:02:44 PM PDT by TBP
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To: Terriergal

I’m in Taiwan on a business trip. I read this article and posted this response:

This is a concise look at some of the popular pragmatic methods used in far too churches. The question I am prayerfully pondering is this: How does a concerned saint weigh these type issues in deciding whether to leave his church or continue to bang his head against the wall of worldly pragmatism? The three issues I’ve identified to my elders at my church are: Managerial Control in the way decisions are made and implemented. Product Marketing: worldly considerations in how the church is presented to worldlings. Brand Management: emphasizing uniformity across the entity instead of unity in the body. All of which go unanswered and unaated. With sound preaching Sunday morning, to boot.


7 posted on 07/04/2007 2:30:29 AM PDT by Manfred the Wonder Dawg (Test ALL things, hold to that which is True.)
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To: Terriergal

“Except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it...” Psalm 127:1a “...therefore, let us arise and build” (Nehemiah 2:18).


8 posted on 07/04/2007 2:33:31 PM PDT by miele man (Continually voting against iodine deficient libs for 42 years)
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To: Terriergal

My Church has a sign out front encouraging “Whole hearted followers of Jesus Christ.” The bumper sticker “Times Change- Values Don’t.” and on any given Sunday a reminder that our purpose is to “Glorify God and ENJOY Him forever.”


11 posted on 07/04/2007 4:10:58 PM PDT by Dutchgirl (800-882-2005, 1 then 1 to get direct to your Sr. Senator, 2, then 1 to get your Jr. Senator!))
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