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To: Aquinasfan; fatima
From the Story of Our Lady of Guadalupe...

It's a wonderful story but it does not call attention to God once (as is often the case). This is not in keeping with the scriptures in which all things bring glory to God. But, as you can see from the story, God and our Lord Jesus is rarely mentioned.

One has to wonder why Mary would asks for a temple to be built for her and not to God? No one is under obligation to believe this "miraculous" event occur. But one wonders why someone wouldn't raise questions about people popping in on them asking them to erect temples to them.

17 posted on 06/18/2007 7:42:19 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
It's a wonderful story but it does not call attention to God once (as is often the case).

At least in this account. In another account I read that she revealed herself to be "the Ever Virgin Mother of the True God."

This is not in keeping with the scriptures in which all things bring glory to God.

God often chooses to glorify Himself through his creatures. In this case, "to God through Mary." We all can be conduits of grace in some way.

This miracle brought about the conversion of 9 million pagans, so it bore good fruit.

Notice also that the image is Scriptural, in that it accords with this image described in Revelation.

Revelation 12:1

A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

But, as you can see from the story, God and our Lord Jesus is rarely mentioned. One has to wonder why Mary would asks for a temple to be built for her and not to God?

I believe that this is the reason. Mary is the woman alluded to in Genesis whose seed "crushes the head of the serpent." This would have special significance for the native people.

The origin of the name Guadalupe has always been a matter of controversy. The name came about because of the translation from Nahuatl to Spanish of the words used by the Virgin to announce herself: the Nahuatl word of "coatlaxopeuh" which is pronounced "quatlasupe" and sounds remarkably like the Spanish word Guadalupe. Catholic historians translate Coa as serpent; tla is interpreted as "the", while xopeuh means to crush or stamp out. The original Nahuatl translates as "the one who crushes the serpent", an allusion to Quetzecoatl, the serpent god-king of the Aztec religion.
Perhaps in this way, God could use Mary to lead the people away from their pagan religion and to Himself.

But one wonders why someone wouldn't raise questions about people popping in on them asking them to erect temples to them.

The bishop dismissed Juan Diego's visions until the day when Juan Diego unfurled his tilma bearing the miraculous image, and fresh roses tumbled out. This was in wintertime, when roses were not in bloom.

18 posted on 06/18/2007 8:14:41 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: HarleyD
It's a wonderful story but it does not call attention to God once

True God for whom we live, of the Creator of all things, Lord of heaven and the earth

It called my attention!

19 posted on 06/18/2007 8:18:14 AM PDT by Titanites
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To: HarleyD
One has to wonder why Mary would asks for a temple to be built for her and not to God?

That's not at all clear from the text.

In point of fact, the "temple" in question is a Catholic church. Every Catholic church in the world is a temple to the worship of Almighty God; not a single one is a "temple for Mary and not for God".

20 posted on 06/18/2007 8:19:56 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: HarleyD; Aquinasfan; Campion; sandyeggo
Harley,

From your source: This is the story of Our Lady of Guadalupe as recorded by Luis Lasso de la Vega in 1649, a translation from the Nahuatl indian dialect. This was written 118 years after the event.

Though your source is good, it is the third and later telling of the story of Guadalupe. The following is taken from the first and oldest account, written about 1540, nine years after the events occurred.

http://www.maryourmother.net/Guadalupe.html

The following account of the five apparitions in three days is based on the oldest written record of the miracle of Our Lady of Guadalupe, the Nican Mopohua, written in Nahuatl about 1540 by Don Antonio Valeriano, one of the first Aztec Indians educated by the Franciscans at the Bishop's Colegio de la Santa Cruz.

"I am the Virgin Mary, Mother of the one true God, of Him who gives life. He is Lord and Creator of heaven and of earth.

I desire that there be built a temple at this place where I want to manifest Him, make him known, give Him to all people through my love, my compassion, my help, and my protection.

I truly am your merciful Mother, your Mother and the Mother of all who dwell in this land, and of all mankind, of all those who love me, of those who cry to me, and of those who seek and place their trust in me. Here I shall listen to their weeping and their sorrows. I shall take them all to my heart, and I shall cure their many sufferings, afflictions, and sorrows.

So run now to Tenochtitlan and tell the Lord Bishop all that you have seen and heard."

Notice the bolded section. It is not recounted in the later source. Most importantly, notice that Our Lady does not request that a temple be built in her honor but that she desires to "manifest Him, make him known, give Him to all people". Also take note that she does so "through my love, my compassion, my help, and my protection".

The story of Guadalupe is much more than Mary's appearance to Juan Diego and the events that followed. Fifteen hundred years earlier, Mary said yes to the angel Gabriel and 9 months later brought forth her first-born son. She did this through her love, compassion, help and protection to manifest Him, make Him known and give Him to all the people. In 1531, she brought Christmas to the New World again desiring to manifest Him, make Him known, give Him to all people through her love, compassion, help, and protection. Thus she brought glory to God by bringing Him to the New World.

48 posted on 06/18/2007 11:47:32 PM PDT by pipeorganman
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