You left out "bigoted, hateful, spiteful, self-righteous, malicious, proud, arrogant, haughty, insolent, rude, intolerant, full of myself, disgusting, abhorrent, foul tempered and truculent."
That would be a more fitting description! Actually, I am not trying to unnecessarily beat up on anyone. I don't take myself real seriously, and I will be quick to beg your pardon if you tell me "I really don't like that." You may call me if you think I am inappropriate at any time, and I appreciate it when you do.
Let me give you an example of a group that had sincere, dedicated beliefs at one time. They were the Hesychasts. They were mystic monks who lived on Mt Athos in the 14th century. They believed that you achieved a state of spiritual oneness with Christ by gazing intently at your navel and repeating "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." until the Holy Spirit came and posessed your faculties (I am not making this up!). These brethren were most sincere, and humble. I think they were loopy, even if they were sincere and passionate and humble.
I think some of the dispensationalist stuff is just plain weird, even if it is held by the most studied of brethren. I can disagree with folks on a broad number of topics from baptismal mode to church gov't to chiliasm to any number of topics and we can remain friends. One of my closest friends in TX was a Bible church pastor and graduate of Dallas Seminary, with whom I went round and round over this.
I am not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here. Nor do I expect to change anyone's mind in an internet forum. The best I can hope to do is have someone say "hmmmm, maybe there is more to this than I thought there was."
Feel free to comment on style and substance. I have a very thick skin, and there is no accusation one can make of me that the truth is not worse.
dop,
I do not care personally what anyone else believes - I just
have to have a studied conviction internally as to what is
true. I posted on another thread that being a lightening rod
isn’t bad, if you’re well grounded!
Having said that, I believe you should reread some of your
posts and ask yourself whether Christ would want you to
express yourself toward other believers in the way you did.
I think we all need that at times.
As to flat out heresy, well, Paul called the heretics and
legalists “Dogs”. :-)
Frankly, apart from Romans, which I understand far
differently than you as to the restoration of Israel,
and I find that idea repeated from the OT onwards...
... most importantly, in Jeremiah 23:7,8
“7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that
they shall no more say, As Jehovah liveth, who brought up
the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; 8 but, As
Jehovah liveth, who brought up and who led the seed of the
house of Israel out of the north country, and from all the
countries whither I had driven them. And they shall dwell
in their own land.”
American Standard Version. 1995 (Je 23:7,8). Oak Harbor, WA
Logos Research Systems, Inc.
After the restoration of Israel, the Jews will no longer talk
about being delivered from Egypt. The restoration will be so
incredible that the nation of Israel in its restored land
will talk about the restoration.
Jews still celebrate the deliverance from Egypt. Some day,
that will be eclipsed by something more dramatic.
I will end this post here. If too much information is covered
in each post, it becomes difficult to follow.
best,
ampu