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Another thread to discuss the Bible.

Please remember the rules of the Religion Moderator as this topic is discussed.

1 posted on 04/18/2007 11:20:12 AM PDT by Salvation
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2 posted on 04/18/2007 11:22:18 AM PDT by Salvation (" With God all things are possible. ")
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To: Salvation

In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.


3 posted on 04/18/2007 11:28:08 AM PDT by Mr. K (Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help)
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To: Salvation
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’ 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
4 posted on 04/18/2007 11:31:52 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.)
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To: Salvation

at times literally (Jesus rose from the dead.)

at times figuratively. (Jesus the Lamb of God.)

At times both. (Jesus being the stone the builders rejected.)

IMHO.

Where is speaks on faith and morals, how to live a life the way God wants us to, it’s quite clear.


5 posted on 04/18/2007 11:37:04 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Salvation; MarkBsnr
I would like to see you guys discuss:

To What Degree does the Bible Matter to Catholicism?

"I have repeatedly offered $1000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: 'No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church. Priest Thomas Enright, CSSR, President of Redemptorist College, Kansas City, Missouri, in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, and printed in the American Sentinel, June 1883, a New York Roman Catholic journal.

6 posted on 04/18/2007 11:38:40 AM PDT by kerryusama04 (John 19:31)
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To: All
Catholic and Protestant Bibles: What is the Difference?

Glimpsing Words, Practices, or Beliefs Unique to Catholicism [Bible Trivia]

Should We Take the Bible Literally or Figuratively?

12 posted on 04/18/2007 11:47:31 AM PDT by Salvation (" With God all things are possible. ")
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To: Salvation

Nice article. I’ve always thought the answer to this question is “yes,” because so much of the Bible is written in allegory and parable.


15 posted on 04/18/2007 11:50:19 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Salvation

Yes.


17 posted on 04/18/2007 11:53:29 AM PDT by labette
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To: Salvation

ping


18 posted on 04/18/2007 11:56:08 AM PDT by pa mom (God bless Tech--and I'm a Wahoo!)
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To: Salvation

“Should we take the Bible literally or figuratively?”

Yes.


19 posted on 04/18/2007 11:59:31 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("There is no such thing as death for a Christian who believes in the Resurrection." ~ Fr. Ho Lung)
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To: Salvation

We should take the Old Testament in the light of the New Testament, in the sense put in it by the inspired writers and attested to by the Fathers of the early Church. No figurative interpretation should take precedence over the literal interpretation, if the literal interpretation is available and has a patristic origin. Everything else is inserting your own meaning into the Bible.


21 posted on 04/18/2007 12:12:24 PM PDT by annalex
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To: Salvation; DungeonMaster; Tax-chick
Father John Corapi in his excellent EWTN series on the Catechism (Sunday nights at 8:00) makes specific reference to 111 (and following) especially for interpretation.

Note too that Jimmy Akin has written an excellent book on the "Senses of Scripture."

The Navarre Bible has outstanding commentary on the Bible verse by verse in such a way as to make it easily accessible to all.

III. THE HOLY SPIRIT, INTERPRETER OF SCRIPTURE

109 In Sacred Scripture, God speaks to man in a human way. To interpret Scripture correctly, the reader must be attentive to what the human authors truly wanted to affirm, and to what God wanted to reveal to us by their words.75

110 In order to discover the sacred authors' intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current. "For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression."76

111 But since Sacred Scripture is inspired, there is another and no less important principle of correct interpretation, without which Scripture would remain a dead letter. "Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written."77

The Second Vatican Council indicates three criteria for interpreting Scripture in accordance with the Spirit who inspired it.78

1. Be especially attentive "to the content and unity of the whole Scripture". Different as the books which compose it may be, Scripture is a unity by reason of the unity of God's plan, of which Christ Jesus is the center and heart, open since his Passover.79

The phrase "heart of Christ" can refer to Sacred Scripture, which makes known his heart, closed before the Passion, as the Scripture was obscure. But the Scripture has been opened since the Passion; since those who from then on have understood it, consider and discern in what way the prophecies must be interpreted.80

2. Read the Scripture within "the living Tradition of the whole Church". According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church's heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her Tradition the living memorial of God's Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture (". . . according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church"81).

3. Be attentive to the analogy of faith.82 By "analogy of faith" we mean the coherence of the truths of faith among themselves and within the whole plan of Revelation.

The senses of Scripture

115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.

The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: "All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal."83

The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God's plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.

1. The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ's victory and also of Christian Baptism.84

2. The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written "for our instruction".85

3. The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, "leading"). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.86

118 A medieval couplet summarizes the significance of the four senses:

The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.87
"It is the task of exegetes to work, according to these rules, towards a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture in order that their research may help the Church to form a firmer judgement. For, of course, all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgement of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God."88
But I would not believe in the Gospel, had not the authority of the Catholic Church already moved me.89

24 posted on 04/18/2007 12:20:52 PM PDT by Frank Sheed (Dead Ráibéad)
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To: Salvation

People who have serious issues with the Bible taken literally or figuratively most often don’t understand what the Bible is. It was not written exclusively to the 21st century western culture. It is not exclusively a rulebook. It is not exclusively history, prophecy, or moral teachings. It is essentially the most relevant true story to our existence. It is timeless truth for humanity throughout our time here on Earth.

What the Bible says is entirely true, but has to be understood through the cultures which it was given. We must not make the error that we completely understand the Bible. Its core message is clear, but it touches on the deepest concepts in creation. Some concepts the Bible covers are complex to the point of being unknowable. Some things are mysteries now, but will be understood at a later point in human existence.

One thing is clear though: Jesus us the point of the Bible, and the reason for the Bible. The simple message of salvation through His sacrifice is its core message. Whatever else God may reveal to us through the Bible is secondary to Jesus.


48 posted on 04/18/2007 12:51:04 PM PDT by dan1123 (You are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. --Jesus)
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To: Salvation; xzins; jude24; blue-duncan

Here’s a list of questions to ponder:

Figurative or Literal?

1) 6 Day Creation?
2) Garden of Eden?
3) Serpent?
4) Tree of Knowledge?
5) Cain & Abel?
6) The Flood?
7) Abraham?
8) Moses?
9) The Nile into blood?
10) Plagues of Egypt?
11) The passover?
12) The parting of the Red Sea?
13) The 40 year wandering?
14) The Ten commandments?
15) The Walls of Jericho?
16) The one hour time stop?
17) Jonah?
18) Job?
19) Sampson and the Phillistines
19) David & Goliath?
20) Daniel and the Lion’s Den?
21) Shadrach Meshach and Abednigo in the fiery furnace?
22) The Virgin Birth?
23) Water into wine?
24) The Incarnation?
25) The Resurrection?

I’m sure there are more.


83 posted on 04/18/2007 3:46:10 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Salvation

which translation?


85 posted on 04/18/2007 3:54:19 PM PDT by ichabod1 ("Liberals read Karl Marx. Conservatives UNDERSTAND Karl Marx." Ronald Reagan)
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To: Salvation

ancient teachers said the bible is to be interpreted four ways.

Some stories, like Jonah and Job, are teaching stories. Other historical parts were verbal traditions handed down, and have some distortions of “history” but many true facts, but again are remembered for what they tell us about God.

Even Jesus criticized the oversimplification of following the rules, and the early church disposed of most of the hygiene rules.

Like all great literature, there are many meanings and layers of meanings in the Bible. Too often the “literal” arguments miss the point.


96 posted on 04/18/2007 5:12:02 PM PDT by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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To: Salvation

I take it as THE WORD. Period.


99 posted on 04/18/2007 5:15:31 PM PDT by RetiredArmy (America has lost its mind and is on its last days as a free country & Republic.)
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To: Salvation

bump


103 posted on 04/18/2007 5:42:13 PM PDT by pa mom (God bless Tech--and I'm a Wahoo!)
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To: Salvation
As the living word of God, the Bible is also true to itself and the spiritual truths expressed in a variety of tones, formats, and literary styles. Many themes and purposes arise in its pages, but the overall goal shows the salvation and redemption of man by the Almighty God, beginning in Genesis and going all the way through the final Amen in Revelation. So as you study the Bible, don't worry about whether you should take the words literally or figuratively. Just take them. Read them. Study them, and get to know what the Biblical record shows about the ongoing relationship between human beings and the God of love.

*************

Good advice. :) Thanks for this, Salvation!

153 posted on 04/19/2007 8:23:34 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Salvation
Should We Take the Bible Literally or Figuratively?

Literally where literal. Figuratively where figurative. After all it is at least 66 books written over a period of centuries and containing history, poetry, and prophecy, etc..
157 posted on 04/19/2007 9:27:15 AM PDT by aruanan
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