Posted on 02/04/2007 6:58:49 PM PST by sionnsar
This is amazingly hopeful. As some of you know, I have recently been growing in my fondness for Orthodox ecclesiology, which is very much the original Christian understanding of the Church, “being in communion”, the Sacraments, etc.
The Church Times reported yesterday that Reunion with East not beyond hope. But of course, we Anglicans must get ourselves back in proper order and stop playing hard and fast with the Sacraments, first. I pray that this generation will truly be the turning point in undoing the damage of the previous generations. What happens in Dar Es Salaam, at Lambeth 2008, and here in North America is crucial to continuing any real sense of Catholicity within Anglicanism. I do hope more of our bishops begin to realize how important each step is, and please consider full juridical reunion with the broader Catholic Church while making decisions.
tip to Meam Commemorationem
On another Orthodox note, Pope Shenouda gave two unashamedly culture-smashing lectures, dealing with the two sins of unrepentant homosexuality and the ordination of women. Please give it a serious read.
tip to Drell’s Descant’s
Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams. ping
Don't bet on it.
I was wondering what the writers for the Church Times were smoking, but I see it's just the usual reading too much into positive sounding statements coming out of the Phanar.
If Anglicans want a real assessment of prospects for reunion with the East, they ought to be talking either to Moscow, or maybe to Bishop Kallistos right there in England.
Unless they anathematize TEC, it will never fly: opposition from the ordinary Orthodox clergy in North America alone will be enough to kill any union move.
"But the Orthodox leadership said that new “hindrances” had left that prospect less obvious than it had been."
That's Byzantine for "Don't hold your breath"!
Therein lies the crux.
LOL!
Therein lies the crux.
K can set me straight if I'm wrong, but I don't think that would be enough. If I understand correctly, in addition to anathematizing TEC and ACC, all women with "orders" would need to renounce them. Right?
"K can set me straight if I'm wrong, but I don't think that would be enough. If I understand correctly, in addition to anathematizing TEC and ACC, all women with "orders" would need to renounce them. Right?"
I think every clergy"person" would have to renounce their orders. Only the men could be then ordained. Its possible that the men could simply be vested, but I doubt it, the early 20th century recognition of Anglican orders notwithstanding. And there'e be no married bishops.
Certainly priestesses would not be admitted as validly ordained.
If, and given all that the Anglicans have done since the days when Bp. Grafton of Fond du Lac and St. Tikhon were holding talks, it's a *very* big if, the doctrinal issues, and issues arising from the misbehavior of TEC and a few other Anglican provinces in ordaining and consecrating women on the one hand, and notorious sinners on the other, were all resolved, it is not so clear that mass renunciation of Anglican orders and ordination in Orthodox orders would be needed.
There is precedent in which a whole diocese of the Assyrian Church was received into the Russian Church by a concordat between their bishop and the Church, no ordinations, no chrismation of members, just an agreement establishing communion.
Clearly the purported priestly orders conferred upon women are void. But there is no strong argument for the invalidity of ordinations of women to the diaconate.
Bishop Dyer said that he had never worked with people “so Christ-like gentle to one another and so Christ-like direct in speaking the truth”
This is the kind of testimony I like to hear. However, I believe it’s wishful thinking at best. Kinda like hoping my former mega-church will suddenly change course. Not gonna happen though.
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