SCRIPTURE ALONE ("SOLA SCRIPTURA")

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html ^ | John Salza

[AlbionGirl]

Nice, Dr. E, and thanks. Will post to you within next couple of days. I've got a bit to add to this thread as it relates to the history of Trent and the counter-Reformation.

We were hit with snow this week. I love snow. Nothing says the Majesty of God like snow to me. There is something in it that compels one to become silent in view of His Majesty.

Being that this thread is about Sola Scriptura, I wish I could find the quote of Luther's that begs those who are arguing with him to quote Scripture just once. Luther was a force.

I used to hate polemic, but now I like it. :) Certainly it isn't the best tool for reconciliation, and the Reformers certainly were masters of it and probably overdid it a bit, but can you imagine the stress that Calvin and Luther must have been under as they were trying to answer their critics, avoid the stake and tend to their flocks?

Anyway, before I leave to wash my car, etc. I want to leave you with this quote of Luther's; it's a classic:

“What kind of peddling is this, yes, what thievery and robbery when I am robbed of the body and blood of Christ which by right ought to be given me freely, and when in exchange for my money and goods, I am offered the sacrifice and work of a godless, miserable man? I would call that robbing me of my nourishment and, moreover, selling me refuse for money. Yes, it means robbing me of the kingdom of heaven, and in exchange for my money, selling me the fire of hell, which unfortunately I had previously earned without money and posessed because of my sin.”

I know we have differing views on the Eucharist, nonetheless, Dr. E., you have to appreciate Luther's 'meta narrative' here.

One last thing. In Sasse's piece on the Lord's Supper he mentions the disparate views that existed in the early church vis-a-vis spiritual vs. corporeal communion, and brings that forward into the period of the Reformation. Once I finish that, and if the subject arises again I'll relay in more detail what I've 'learned'.

Have a good weekend.

[Uncle Chip]

Biblical Hebrew: Step By Step by Menahem Mansoor. However the most valuable tool is my Strongs Concordance which is as worn out as my Bible.

[pjr12345]

why would any group of believers in Christ lead unbelievers or new believers to a further understanding of God through faith in Christ by taking on the title of "Father"?

You wouldn't be satisfied with the RCC answer.

[OLD REGGIE]

Old Reggie,

The link to the original as well the author's name was the very first thing posted. That's how all FReepers post material from other sources.

Perhaps you can address the substance instead of falsely labeling a poster who posts irrefutable material.

Of course I'm familiar with the FR protocol, have admitted my error, and apologized for it. My error was an honest one.

Your sanctimonious response indicates you are equally aware FR protocol requires that one address the subject of your response directly rather than through a second party. The fact you chose to do otherwise says much about you.

Carry on Oh Perfect One.

BTW the material posted was far from irrefutable.

[Vicomte13]

Yes, Paul's epistles are inspired.

[Religion Moderator]

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[Vicomte13]

Good, thank you ScubieNuc.

In order to respond to your post, I am having to take a bit of time carefully collecting every instance in the Gospels in which Jesus references Scripture, and what he says about it, and what he uses it for.

That will take me a little bit of time, but there is no point giving half-baked, swashbukling answers to serious questions. So, I will go "down periscope" for a bit with you, and when I resurface I will have a set of Scriptural answers to your Scriptural questions and assertions.

Thanks again.

[Vicomte13]

"There existed believers in the Old Testament period who were also only saved through faith in Him. They did not have the New Testament Gospels, however, the crimson thread of redemption runs throughout each of books of the major and minor prophets."

There are people who go to heaven without ever having read a lick of Scripture at all, and who have only the simplest comprehension of what's in them. My point was merely that IF we take Scripture seriously and IF we use it to try and understand what God wants of us, the logical place one must begin is with what God said and did when he himself came to earth in the flesh. It doesn't make sense to have four books about what God himself said and did in person and not use that as the core reference.

[pjr12345]

"There existed believers in the Old Testament period who were also only saved through faith in Him. They did not have the New Testament Gospels, however, the crimson thread of redemption runs throughout each of books of the major and minor prophets."

Romans 16:25-26

25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith—

Hebrew 11, culminating in verse 39

39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

Those of the OT who were saved, were saved by faith in God's promise of a plan for salvation. A plan He kept hidden until after it had been accomplished.

There are people who go to heaven without ever having read a lick of Scripture at all,

Romans 1:19-21

19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

EVERYONE is aware of God simply by the world around them. The bare minimum requirement for all men is to glorify Him and thank Him. From there, our responsibility increases based upon the level of enlightenment we receive.

It doesn't make sense to have four books about what God himself said and did in person and not use that as the core reference.

2 Timothy 3:16

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

John 14:26

26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

The operative word in both passages is ALL. It doesn't say, "the gospels are a better source of teaching than the epistles", nor does it say "the Holy Spirit will guide you in better truth through your historical writings than in your letters".

Ranking Scripture is unacceptable and ungodly. It is All inspired by the Holy Spirit, and equally authoritative!

[pjr12345]

Feel free to respond to my post 573.

[OLD REGGIE]

It is one of the fabrications of Martin Luther's five solas.

Augustine, Contra litteras Petiliani, Bk 3, ch. 6.

If anyone preaches either concerning Christ or concerning His church or concerning any other matter which pertains to our faith and life; I will not say, if we, but what Paul adds, if an angel from heaven should preach to you anything besides what you have received in the Scriptures of the Law and of the Gospels, let him be anathema.

Are you certain it wasn't a fabrication of Augustine? :-)

[Cvengr]

Agreed, in that by all mean's we have been blessed and graced with direct revelation from God the Son. He also is directly quoted in Acts.

[Cvengr]

Concur, great references,..thanks.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Enjoy the snow, AG. There's nothing so pretty as new snow in the morning.

[Uncle Chip]

Great points.

The selective nature of their sainthood has always amazed me. Some never make it because they disagreed with the phony doctrines of the RCC,like Tertullian, and yet others of questionable character have been sainted. And the criterion for getting one's halo: apparent miracles that occur on a certain day assigned to the deceased applicant. Where did that ever come from?

[pjr12345]

And the criterion for getting one's halo: apparent miracles that occur on a certain day assigned to the deceased applicant. Where did that ever come from?

With God (as your marionette) anything is possible!

[wmfights]

Isaiah 45 tells us that Cyrus was anointed for some things --- but not to build the city of Jerusalem. That would be left to his son [grandson, great grandson?] Artaxerxes [465 - ] who would do that.

Thank you for your illuminating posts. I had not been aware of the disbelief that the start date was Artaxerxes decree.

If we go by this interpretation, which I believe to be true, the Old Testament does give us rock solid evidence of whom Jesus truly is, the CHRIST. Thus the claim there is no proof falls away.

[Uncle Chip]

Exactly --- The evidence that Jesus was and is their Messiah who came exactly at the time that Daniel prophesied is right there in their own Hebrew Scriptures. The Jews, however, have the same problem with sola Scriptura as the RCC, EOC, and others.

They all use this amorphous fungible entity that they call Tradition [oral, rabbinic, patriarchal, Talmudic, magisterial, whatever ...] to interpret and explain away the plain and clear meaning of those Scriptures that they would just as soon like to get rid of.

[pjr12345]

The power of the statement is in its brevity!

Well said.

[wmfights]

Exactly --- The evidence that Jesus was and is their Messiah who came exactly at the time that Daniel prophesied is right there in their own Hebrew Scriptures. The Jews, however, have the same problem with sola Scriptura as the RCC, EOC, and others.

The point you make can't be repeated enough!

Reviewing this prophesy and it's fulfillment in Jesus Christ is a great example of why sola Scriptura is so important. If we look, all the answers we need to know are in Scripture. The statement had been made there was no proof that Jesus was the Messiah. The time line from the prophesy in Daniel fits Jesus' ministry and crucifixion. We have no one else on Earth at that time who made the claims Jesus did nor rose from the dead and later ascended into heaven.

I've always thought that this prophesy is the most powerful in the OT referencing the Messiah.