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To: annalex
Please look at my 4004 and Blogger's response at, I believe 4006.

I am astonished at the interpretation of Luther's teaching presented by some here. I read some Luther in College and a little more in Seminary, and I guess I'd like to have the actual text, chapter and verse, where he says it's okay to commit a lot of adultery. It must be the famous "Madonna Edition".

I got from him pretty much what Blogger said, that the fuel and practise of the Christian life is faith in God's saving love, and the way to avoid sin is to rest in that faith.

Here, let me call down everybody's wrath: I would say that my almost daily rosary, my attendance at Mass, my prayers in the sleepless hours of the night, ALL of it is really just a way of "waiting on" the Lord and intentionally and consciously trusting in His saving Love.

When I was at the Sheriff's office a maxim was, "You fight as you train." So I train myself, through noetic prayer, including the prayer of the heart (Can you say "Philkalia?"), undertaken with guidance from wise and holy people, and all the rest of it, to trust that there is nothing I need to add to God or to the Love of God (both sense of the genitive included). I, personally, am "getting nowhere" with it, and sometimes that distresses me. But I trust that God may be getting somewhere with me, and when the dust settles, that's what's going to matter. I don't expect to say, "Well, I certainly deserve this," if I find myself in heaven. What I look for is an eternity of grateful praise, of looking ever more deeply into the eyes of my Lord and saying from ever deeper parts of me, "THANK YOU!"

And in the meantime, when, as is usually the case, when I find I have sinned, I confess, I try to make such amends as I can, but I stake my life on God's mercy and love. I am still bold enough to say "Father". And that's pretty much what I understood Luther to be saying in the "sin boldly" stuff. If knowing my self to have sinned, I thought I could not take confidence in God's love, well, I think I'd have another drink or a bullet to the head or something along those lines.

G'night and God bless.

4,082 posted on 01/05/2007 7:03:52 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Now we are all Massoud)
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To: Mad Dawg; sitetest; Kolokotronis; kosta50; annalex; sandyeggo; BlackElk
With all due respect, I'd say you are wrong. Luther taught one could not avoid sin. I suspect you can. I know Jesus taught we could avoid sin. I know my wife thinks I can avoid adultery and murder :)

The fact of the matter is Luther was insane and the solitary time he debated his protestant principles with Mr. Eck, he got his clock cleaned and he was thoroughly humiliated and never debated with a Catholic again. After the debate he was despondent and he knew he was proved wrong in all of his assertions. Period. Even protestant historians admit that

He was a violent, abusive, hateful, Jew-hating, vow-breaking,drunk.

All I have done - and I thought this was obvious - was to treat Luther like HE treated EVERYONE. The difference is my treatment of him has been 100 times more Christian than he treated others.

I find it interesting that in this thread you only object when Christians write their personal opinions about Luther's personal opinions while you have not objected when folks personal written opinions about Scripture are so obviously outrageously heretical.

I think your action/inaction tends to give credence to my assertion that Scripture interpretation contrary to 2000 years of orthopraxis and authoritative Church Teaching is fair game for any Moe, Larry, or Curly but woe betide that individual rash enough to oppose the protestant demigod, Luther.

If I am wrong, I'd appreciate being shown where I am wrong. Thank you, brother.

4,101 posted on 01/06/2007 2:46:45 AM PST by bornacatholic
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