I did not realize that Modern Reformation and Modern Drunkard had merged.
Way to shake things up! Cheers!
Posted on 11/05/2006 6:57:21 AM PST by Gamecock
I don't disagree. Christians can drink, they can eat, and they can have sex. There are acceptable bounds to all three.
You are misrepresenting what I said and you know it.
Then why don't you take some time and make your point perfectly clear. It sure sounded to me like you were claiming that the accusation that Jesus was a drunkard was true.
Maybe that is not what you meant (John Kerry), but I am not on this thread to read your mind, I only can read your posts.
I said he was called a drunkard. He never denied drinking. He was bashing those who were the legalists of the day.
Did he admit it?
I have heard some references to Jesus being a Nazarite. If so, then he, like his cousin John, would not have drunk wine. He might have made it out of water, but he would not have drunk it if he had taken a Nazarite vow.
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD: He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried. (Numbers 6:1-3 KJV)
Yes.
I don't know about "many" supporting "wine and strong drink", but there are verses that speak of being drunk not with wine, but on God.
Isaiah 29:9
Jeremiah 23:9
Ephesians 5:18
No one here thinks alcohol is "evil". Indeed, it is only a tool. As with all tools, it can be used for good or bad. Things don't have souls; they aren't capable of being "good".
Drinking alcohol is not a sin. Therefore, one who doesn't drink is not any more holy than one who doesn't.
However, one can never drink to the point they lose self-control. Indeed, we know of no circumstance in which Christ had anything other than full control of Himself.
It's common sense.
And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not.
(Mark 15:23 KJV)
Eating does not equal gluttony.
Drinking does not equal drunkenness.
Where are you getting your definitions?
Jesus turned the water into juice.
Since when does drinking equal "being drunk"?
What is your life like to be thinking in such ways?
That's my point. We're talking past each other.
Grape juice was unknown until the 1800's. It wouldn't last in a hot Palestinian climate anyway.
I did not realize that Modern Reformation and Modern Drunkard had merged.
Way to shake things up! Cheers!
Ahem. Game point.
Reformational drinking is fine, IMO, as long as there is a Reformational designated driver around.
There is no indication that what he was drinking was wine. It could have been "other strong drink".
If he was a Nazarite, I think he may have been eligible to drink beer, but not wine.
The passage you quote does not indicate that Jesus drank wine. Only that he came eating and drinking. There is no indication that he was ever under the influence of any alcoholic beverage. I suspect that most of the posters here who advocate drinking as some kind of sacrament or something to do to glorify God, cannot say that.
If Jesus had taken a Nazarite vow, he would not have drunk wine. I believe there is some old testament prophecy which suggested that was to be a Nazarite. I could be wrong. Be that as it may, show me one verse where Jesus admitted that he drank to the point of being drunk or in any way impaired by drink.
By the way, CM, your exposition of the bad results of excess drinking can apply to gun use/ownership. Do you likewise eschew gun use and ownership? I mean, some abuse guns, right? So shouldn't the rest of us give them up, just in case?
Of course, my take is, every day, 70 millions gun owners don't commit crimes.
And every day, probably 100 to 200 million people have a drink without abusing it.
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