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To: Dajjal

" I fear that widespread usage of the Traditional Mass as
an "indulgence" within the Vatican II framework will serve to solidify the phenomenological
underpinnings of V-2."

I have no fear of that. I trust in the Sensus Fidei and my own early experiences of the sacred in the Traditional Mass. I don't think any of the watered down notions will last, they can't hold up and will be apparently out of sync with the richer ( downright heady compared to most Novus Ordo Masses I've attended) liturgy and deep heritage it calls forth. Along with the tremendous solemn impact of the liturgy, this is the Mass - same words - of so many Saints and to God all moments are present in their immediacy!


14 posted on 11/01/2006 6:45:22 PM PST by Domestic Church (AMDG...)
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To: Domestic Church; bornacatholic; narses; Pyro7480; murphE; Aquinasfan; Canticle_of_Deborah; ...
" I fear that widespread usage of the Traditional Mass as an "indulgence" within the Vatican II framework will serve to solidify the phenomenological underpinnings of V-2."

I have no fear of that. I trust in the Sensus Fidei and my own early experiences of the sacred in the Traditional Mass. I don't think any of the watered down notions will last, they can't hold up and will be apparently out of sync with the richer ( downright heady compared to most Novus Ordo Masses I've attended) liturgy and deep heritage it calls forth. Along with the tremendous solemn impact of the liturgy, this is the Mass - same words - of so many Saints and to God all moments are present in their immediacy!

Yet the phenomenologist theologians of the first half of the 20th Century cooked up their notions while worshipping with that very Mass. It may be the Mass of "so many Saints," but it is also the Mass that Karl Rahner and Yves Congar celebrated while they wrote their most important works.

The seminarians of the past 40+ years have been literally deluged with the phenomenological thinking that pervades the Conciliar documents and the writings of John Paul II. These will be the priests who will deliver the sermons at these wide-use Indult Masses.

It is important to understand that at Vatican II, Phenomenology replaced Scholasticism as the "thought of the Church." I advise everyone to read the works of Fr. John F. Kobler, C.Ss.R. on the subject.

The basis of Phenomenology is to look at a familiar thing "in a new way."

Take, for instance the notion of the Church as the "People of God." Of course, taken by itself, "God's people" is a perfectly legitimate term, used by Scripture, the Fathers, and the Doctors. But the phenomenologists can tweak it to mean their new vision of the Church.

One of the forerunners of Vatican II, Dominic Koster, O.P., specifically proposed in 1940 that "the People of God" displace "the Kingdom of Christ" and "the Mystical Body of Christ" as the principle way of understanding the Church. The latter two concepts are "too triumphal" and "too otherworldly."

"The People of God" connotes a Heideggerian People-In-This-World who work together, animated by the same Holy Spirit (see Congar) to live the Social Gospel message of helping the poor and working for peace and justice, as a "light to the nations."

While that paradigm of the Church is certainly assisted by the "horizontal" Novus Ordo, it can certainly be furthered by use of the "vertical" Traditional Mass -- especially when the TLM is merely an "indulgence."

15 posted on 11/01/2006 9:01:50 PM PST by Dajjal
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