The Bible is our guidepost. In it we find all kinds of life instructions, given in terms of "if, then."
None of that changes the fact that God created all existence, all history, all matter and impulse and consequence, from before the foundation of the world, in an instant. Because what God purposed in eternity, occurs in time, absolutely.
That fact is the preeminent fact of existence. We are His creation.
"Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world." -- Acts 15:18
It is the humanists, the relativists, the philosophers, the politicians, who want us to think life is malleable, open-ended, free-flowing, unrestrained, inconclusive. And this they push so that we will proclaim our allegiance to them, to the world, to human effort, to the brotherhood of man, and not to the Fatherhood of all existence.
Predestination is simply acknowledging that God's will is operative and consistent and permeates every atom in the universe. Scripture tells us this over and over. God, who named the stars, who numbered the hairs on our head, who formed us in the womb, who created the end from the beginning, is the only creative force within and outside of time.
And still we say it was our idea; that ultimately we are autonomous which is just what the secular world wants us to believe. So we take our bow and wait for the applause.
And even that foolishness has been ordained by God for His glory.
"The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom." -- Proverbs 16:4
I realize you aver the writings of some men, but we really can learn a great deal from those who went before us and spent their lives immersed in rightly dividing every word of Scripture.
"Scripture is the school of the Holy Spirit, in which, as nothing is omitted that is both necessary and useful to know, so nothing is taught but what is expedient to know. Therefore we must guard against depriving believers of anything disclosed about predestination in Scripture, lest we seem either wickedly to defraud them of the blessing of their God or to accuse and scoff at the Holy Spirit for having published what it is in any way profitable to suppress; Whoever, then, heaps odium upon the doctrine of predestination openly reproaches God, as if he had unadvisedly let slip something hurtful to the church" -- John Calvin (III, XXI, 3-4, pp. 924, 926).
And why does God give us this understanding of His predestination of all things? For the Christian, it is a great and generous gift.
..."The scripture then witnesseth that all those that God hath, according to his counsel, predestinate, to be adopted his children through Jesus Christ, are also called in their time appointed, yea and so effectually, that they hear the voice of him that calleth, and believe it: so that being justified and sanctified in Jesus Christ, they are also glorified. Wilt thou then, whosoever thou art, be assured of thy Predestination, and so, in order, of thy salvation, which thou lookest for, against all the assaults of Satan? Assured I say, not by doubtful conjectures, or our own fantasy, but by arguments and conclusions, no less true and certain, than if thou were ascended into Heaven, and had heard of God's own mouth his Eternal decree and purpose? Beware thou begin not at that most high degree: for so thou shouldest not be able to sustain the most shining light of God's majesty. Begin therefore beneath at the lowest order, and when thou shalt hear the voice of God sound in thine ears, & in thy heart, which calleth thee to Christ the only mediator, consider by little and little, & try diligently, if thou be justified & sanctified in Christ through faith: for these two be the effects or fruits, whereby the faith is known, which is their cause. As for this thou shalt partly know by the spirit of adoption, which crieth within thee, Abba, father: & partly by the virtue & effect of the same spirit, which is wrought in thee. As if thou fall, & so declare indeed that although sin dwell in thee, yet it doth no more reign in thee: for is not the holy ghost he that causeth us not to let slip the bridle, & give liberty willingly to our naughty & vile concupiscences, as they are accustomed, whose eyes the prince of this world blindeth, or else who moveth us to pray when we are cold, and slothful? who stirreth up in us those unspeakable groanings? who is he that when we have sinned (yea & sometimes willingly and wittingly) engendereth in us an hate of the sin committed, and not for the fear of punishment which we have therefore deserved, but because we have offended our most merciful father? Who is he, I say, that testifieth unto us that our sighings are heard, and also moveth us to call daily God, our God, and our Father, even at that time when we have trespassed against him? Is it not that spirit, which is freely given to us as a gift, for a sure and certain pledge of our adoption? Wherefore if we can gather by these effects, that we have faith, it followeth that we are called and drawn effectually. And again, by this vocation, which we have declared properly to belong to the children of God; that is evidently proved which we took in hand to shew, that is, forasmuch as we were Predestinate by the Eternal counsel and decree of God, (the which he had determined in himself) to be adopted in his son, therefore we were given to him, whereof the conclusion followeth, that since by the most constant will of God, which only is grounded on itself, and dependeth on none other thing, we are predestinate, and no man can take us out of the hands of the son: also seeing that to continue and persevere in the faith is necessary, it followeth, I say, that the hope of our perseverance is certain, and so consequently our salvation: so that to doubt any more of it, is evil and wicked. So far then it is against reason to say, that this doctrine maketh men negligent or dissolute, that contrariwise, this alone doth open us the way, to search out and understand, by the power of the holy Ghost, God's deep secrets, as the Apostle plainly teacheth, to the end that when we know them (albeit we know them here in this world but after a sort, so that we must daily fight with the spiritual armor against distrust, we may learn to behave ourselves not idly, but rather to persevere valiantly, to serve and honour God, to love him, to fear him, to call upon him, that daily more and more as saith Peter, as much as in us lieth, we may make our vocation and election certain. Moreover how shall he stand sure and constant against so many grievous temptations, both within and without, and against so many assaults of fortune (as the world doth term it) that is not well resolved in this point which is most true? That is, that God according to his good will, doth all things whatsoever they be, and what instruments and means soever he useth in working of the same, for the commodity of his Elect. Of the which number he is, that findeth himself in this danger and trouble. As touching the other point, which concerneth Reprobation, because no man can call to mind the determinate purpose of Election, but at the same instant the contrary will come to remembrance: (besides that in the holy Scripture these two are oftentimes joined together) it must needs be, that such as esteem this part curious or unprofitable, and therefore not to be talked of, do great injury to the spirit of God. Therefore this part is to be weighed and considered, but with such modesty, that the height of God's judgments may at all times bridle our curious fancies, in such sort that we do not apply it particularly to any man, nor to any certain company. For in this also it differeth from Election, because Election (as hath been said) is revealed to us by the spirit of God within ourselves, not in others, whose hearts we can not know. And Reprobation is ever hid from men, except it be disclosed by God, contrary to the common course of things. For who can tell, if God have determined to shew mercy at the last hour of death, to him which hath spent all his life past lewdly and wickedly? But this trust [hope] ought not to encourage any man to maintain, and continue in his sin and ungodliness. For I speak of those things which we ought to consider in others, for the examples of such mercy of God are very rare, neither any man that is wise will promise to himself through a vain security and trust, that thing which is not in his own power. It is therefore sufficient if we understand generally that there be vessels prepared to perdition: the which, seeing God doth not reveal unto us who they are, we ought both in example of life & prayer, diligently endeavour to win and recover to their salvation, yea even very such, of whom by seeing their horrible vices, we almost despise. And if we observe this order, we shall receive great fruit of this doctrine. For first by the knowledge hereof, we shall learn humbly to submit ourselves to the majesty of God, so that the more we shall fear and reverence him, the more we ought to labour to confirm in ourselves the testimony of our election in Christ. Furthermore when we shall diligently consider the difference, which through the mercy of God is betwixt men, which are all alike subject to the selfsame curse and malediction, it can not be, but we must acknowledge and embrace more earnestly the singular goodness of God, than if we did make this grace common to all men indifferently, or else referred the cause of the inequality of this grace to men. Besides this, when we know that faith is a special gift of God, shall we not receive it more willingly when it is offered, and be more careful to have the same to increase, than if we should imagine (as some do) that it is in every man's power to turn and repent when he will, because (they say) the Lord would that all men should be saved, and will not the death of a sinner? Finally, when we see the doctrine of the Gospel not only despised of all the world, but also cruelly persecuted: and when we see so great falsehood and rebellion amongst men, what thing can better confirm and fortify us, than to be assured that nothing chanceth by fortune, that God knoweth his, and that they which commit these things (except God turn their hearts) are those which are destinate, not by chance, but by the sure and eternal counsel of God, to be as it were a glass, wherein the anger and power of God doth appear? Truth it is, that these things can never be so commodiously and perfectly treated of, that man's reason and wit cannot find out something to reply always to the contrary, yea and so kindleth with desire of contradiction, that it is ready to bring an action against God, and to accuse and blame him as chief author of all things. But let the Devil roar and discontent himself, and the wicked kick and wince: yet their own conscience shall reprove & condemn them when as ours, being confirmed in the truth, by the grace and mercy of our God, shall deliver and free us, in the day of Christ. To whom with the Father, and the holy Ghost, praise, glory, and honor be given for ever. So be it." -- Theodore Beza
(Sorry that last quote was so long, but every word is lovely, IMO. Every word worth reading.)
Perhaps if the long quote gets some paragraphing, I MIGHT read it.
I still think Alamo-Girl's post is exceedingly more true to Scripture and to reality.
Respectfully, I do not think you understand predestination at all, particularly in light of the fact you think it is indistinguishable from the atheist perspective.
= = = =
As Dr Walter Martin used to note . . . there are not a lot of philosophical options.
If it walks like a duck, quacks, waddles, swims, flies, quacks, ruffles it's feathers, poops, bobs it's head, wiggles it's tail, . . . like a duck . . . it's probably not an elephand nor even a goose.
DETERMINISM = DETERMINISM. Wrapping it in white-washed robes of religiosity doesn't change the facts of it one bit.
Pretending things are so doesn't make them so.
Pretending things are Biblical doesn't make them so.
Pretending the Bible presents things in a one-sided 100% all determinism picture doesn't make it so. The Scriptures are clearly BOTH-AND. Evidently, God's REALITY that He's thrown us into is BOTH-AND. Pretending otherwise, doesn't make it so. Denying the mysteries involved doesn't make them go away.