The Book of Mormon Challenge

Joseph Smith America Prophet ^ | 2006

[colorcountry]

He doesn't, he calls you his child.

I would consider it a sin of pride to call myself a "saint."

Pride is the excessive love of one's own excellence. It is ordinarily accounted one of the seven capital sins. St. Thomas, however, endorsing the appreciation of St. Gregory, considers it the queen of all vices, and puts vainglory in its place as one of the deadly sins. In giving it this pre-eminence he takes it in a most formal and complete signification. He understands it to be that frame of mind in which a man, through the love of his own worth, aims to withdraw himself from subjection to Almighty God, and sets at naught the commands of superiors.

[restornu]

BTW you can saying things you know in your SOUL why they are said even if you don't adhere to the faith any more you are just showing how weenie you can be to not respect another even family members!

I expect it from others because they are ignorant to the terms but when one says these things and knows better it is disingenuous!

I do not harbor or disrespect other faiths even though I don't agree with them.

I would find it abhorrent to trash or bash another faith or leader!

To engage in such behavior I would have to sacrifice my company of the Holy Spirit!

The two just don't go togather, to be in Viper Mode and think the Sweet Spirit of the Lord would also attend!

[restornu]

Oh CC you must really a direct line to the opposition today!

you are on a roll....

the things you say and how you twist them is unbeliveable!

LOL

[colorcountry]

I do not harbor or disrespect other faiths even though I don't agree with them.

I would find it abhorrent to trash or bash another faith or leader!

You've said this before, but the simple fact that you posted this thread speaks otherwise. You believe your church is the only true church. You try to convince Christians that they are wrong. The intention of Mormon missionaries is to disprove the faith of others This is as disrespectful as anything I have done here.

BTW you can saying things you know in your SOUL why they are said even if you don't adhere to the faith any more you are just showing how weenie you can be to not respect another even family members!

If I could make sense of this post, I'd respond, but calling me a weenie and telling me I do not respect family members is something you cannot possibly know and is defamatory and libelous. I hope that is not what you are saying.

[colorcountry]

Oh CC you must really a direct line to the opposition today!

Again with the slurs. I do recognize the opposition. He is the one that tells us we can have all the knowledge:

Then the serpent said to the woman, 'You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.'

http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,11-1-13-59,00.html

They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have--all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge. President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: "The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to his commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:36).

[Quester]

So ... do you think that the so-called Gospel of Judas ... should have a place among the scriptures ?

I don’t know, but it makes interesting reading and it refutes the over 40 authors who all agree thing.

Fortunately it doesn't refute a thing ... because it was never a part of the scriptures.

It was just another writing in the collection of writings which were generated during the days of the early church. Some of these writings were inspired by God ... and some of them weren't.

God, working through the early church, separated the wheat from the chaff.

The early church had dismissed the Gospel of Judas (and other similarly spurious writings) ... before Constantine ever came on the scene.

Um who decided these were spurious writings?

God did ... working through the church.

Is it your opinion that all of the writings which appeared during the days of the early church ... should have been declared scripture ?

Do you think that all of the Old Testament Jewish writings ... were compiled into the Old Testament canon ?

Do you believe that the LDS should give as much credence to the Gospel of Judas ... as you give to your already declared scriptures ?


Is this why the apostles were fighting apostasy while they were alive?

The church has fought apostacy and heresy ... for as long as it has existed.

Many have come, ... pretending to be men of God, ... for their own evil purposes ...

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe I simply pointed out that the orthodox teaching of the Church is that the Father and the Son are distinct Persons, but are both the One Eternal God, along with the Holy Spirit.

The Nicene Creed (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11049a.htm ) disagrees with you.

Why is it that you believe that the Nicean Creed disagrees with me ?


Read, Ponder, Pray for knowledge, get corroboration. If I told you to go to some library, you’d go, if I told you to go to a web site, you’d go, but you won’t goto God and you won’t accept the word of those who have, Sad really.

I have been going to God in prayer for some 40 years now ... and He has yet to even hint to me ... that Book of Mormon is from Him.


Unfortunately ... all we have is his single testimony.

Nope, I refuted that already too.

Not quite ... remember ... not another soul on earth ever read those plates. You all have only Joseph's word as to what they said.

So how do I testify of Christ without the spirit.

Christians don't forego the testimony of the Spirit.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

The Spirit simply hasn't led us to embrace the Book of Mormon.

[restornu]

I don't seen it that way I did not mention any thing that another faith would not say when talking about their doctrine.

Such Lutherans today speaking of their pros and cons or each protestants sec or any other faith etc.

I don't make it personal many have made it personal in stead of just having cordial discussions...

In each personal minds they might preceive it as personal but that is not being honest it is just different doctrines..

If I believe God makes a declaration to his word I am not going to stop sharing it, anymore than other should stop sharing what they believe!

What I am trying to advoid is being caught in these snars for if one is cordail and sincere I am interested.

I can't say that this thread has been cordial it been what ever one can hurl.

I have tried to have cordial conversation on other thread and still have to deal with thoes carring on from the last thread instead of see an LDS see a individual who is civil on another thread.

Even if one goes to the N&A forum exers have a need to swipe so to the exers are making it personal because someone is LDS..

When I am on a neutral thread I would never think of saying this person is a Catholic or that person is a Reformer it is not the place for it!

[restornu]

what do you call it when one is contentious?

[colorcountry]

what do you call it when one is contentious?

I would call them contentious. But you must understand this is a judgement call. It would be an opinion. Where you might call me contentious, I would say that I earnestly contend. Like Paul and Jude who said we must “earnestly contend for the faith...once delivered to the saints” because “certain men [have] crept [into the church] unawares...ungodly men...denying...God, and...Christ” (2 Tm 3:8) (Jude 3-4).

[Colofornian]

contentious...earnestly contend

Have you ever noticed that some folks are contentious about other folks' perceived contentiousness?

[colorcountry]

I can't say that this thread has been cordial it been what ever one can hurl.

Please show me where I said anything personal to you. I am discussing my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ period. I quote the Bible, I post from sources.

That you don't like what I have to say does not make me uncordial.

Let me show you on in the last two days alone what you have called me in case you have forgotten.

Post 583: "CC you must really a direct line to the opposition today"

Post 582: "you are just showing how weenie you can be to not respect another even family members"

Post #575: "you of all people should know..."

Post #570: "there you go mis-quoting... rebellious children in 1960 or in 2006, rebellious children are rebellious children

Post #546 :

Post 543: You got to do better than sour grapes!

"The only dog you have in this fight is that you are a bitter xers and are johnny one note bash mormons"

"You claim to be a Calvinist yet you are stuck on revenge!"

[Colofornian]

Satan-angel of light

Well, of course I can't say if this was supernatural or not. Certainly not outside the realm of JS' 1835 account of the "First Vision": "A personage appeared in the midst of this pillar of flame..."

Angel of light? Pillar of flame? Gal. 1:8-9?

[restornu]

The Lord told us to Love One Another!

he talked about the golden rule!

he never told us to bat someone else over the head because they walk a different walk!

The Lord said let you light shine!

He did never said try to put out another light!

***

“earnestly contend for the faith...once delivered to the saints” because “certain men [have] crept [into the church]

You notices it said saints, it did not say christians??

Will this is an impasse for it could be said about any faith that broke away from another in those they were real wars for many burn at the stake who believed in God!

You can hold comtemp for the LDS I will obey the Lord!

As I have Loved you Love One Another, by this shall men know ye are my disciples!

[JRochelle]

LOL!

I'll try that sometime!
When I want to start my own religion.

[restornu]

Funny you did not post the whole thing and not all dealt with you CC it is not all about you!


546 is NOT yours!

"there you go mis-quoting..."

You were mis quoting I said Church not Nibly!

and rebellious children are rebellious children
are you saying CC this is not true?

"you of all people should know..."

if one has a back ground in it should they not have a knowledge even if they don't agree?


"The only dog you have in this fight is that you are a bitter xers and are johnny one note bash mormons"

Are you not a Johnny one note most of the time you are hardly on FR if the LDS are not around!

"You claim to be a Calvinist yet you are stuck on revenge!"
are you saying you don't go after LDS thread?

I was myself WAS Calvinist and I'm NOT stuck on revenge I don't even bother!

[colorcountry]

Resty, I think it's time the mod got involved.

Absolutely I don't just post on Mormon threads. But if I were an attorney and folks started talking about attorneys, I would post because that is what my experience is in.

Likewise, my experience is in being a Mormon and becoming a Christian. THAT is why I discuss it a lot.

You are not to attribute motive to my posts. You are not to call me names. This is not allowed by the Mod. Moderator, please see post #591

[Colofornian]

Whenever I ask a member what an anti mormon is, they say something like this, "An anti Mormon is someone who hates Mormons or the Mormon church, attacks it out of anger, contention, or hate, and distorts the teachings of the church to make it sound bad. They lie, and will say anything to bring the church down. Most often, they are bitter ex members who could not keep the commandants, or were offended by someone in the church and left only to live in misery and jealousy."

CC, I skipped over this post of yours earlier in this thread [#101] mainly 'cause I was answerin' other posts & this was a bit longer [not long compared to mine :)] but I think this fits what you're referencing at this point of the thread.

Whenever someone can't possibly conclude that there's anything inherent to critique about their body of faith [not their personal faith, mind you, but the source & direction of it], then they have nothing else to pin the tail of the donkey on other than you. Why, it must be you that's the basis for why you say what you say.

Why it can't be us you're witnessing to! We're Zion. And it can't be our scriptures you'd have any reason to denounce; our latter witness & revelation & experience & reason trumps your dead creeds [I recall a similarly worded contemporary slam of creeds in one of FAIR's documents--all while they were trying to downplay Joseph's slam of Christian creeds--how ironic].

"So," they conclude. "It's you. It's your anger. It's your bitterness. It's your hate."

The problem is as you & other have often id'd: that what they reserve for themselves, a "missionary spirit" is not their terrain alone. Zealousness of public turf doesn't have "Property of LDS" tagged all over it.

They can't understand that the very wording in the article as the basis for this thead [see my post #52] itself is provocative--that the following are deemed as "original Christian thought" that we "abandoned":

That Christians have played up original sin (vs. the downplaying Nibley says we should do); that Scripture alone is a fallacy; that embryonic godhood is truly "divine"; that "election" means we are "candidates for godhood"; that we all need to embrace polytheism [Deities Anonymous Club??] etc.

Here we're accused of "abandoning" these things, says Nibley, and when we object that Christians have done no such thing, we're effectively told to stop being contentious!

[restornu]

These are my feeling if I were allowed to do, but it seems post after post one spends more time on bad matters issues than cordial discussion!

The Lord told us to Love One Another!

he talked about the golden rule!

he never told us to bat someone else over the head because they walk a different walk!

The Lord said let you light shine!

He did never said try to put out another light!

***

“earnestly contend for the faith...once delivered to the saints” because “certain men [have] crept [into the church]

You notices it said saints, it did not say christians??

Will this is an impasse for it could be said about any faith that broke away from another in those they were real wars for many burn at the stake who believed in God!

You can hold comtemp for the LDS I will strive to obey the Lord!

As I have Loved you Love One Another, by this shall men know ye are my disciples!

[colorcountry]

Yes we are exhorted to Love one another. He are told to turn the other cheek. I am turning my cheek resty, will you strike me again?

Did you find where I had attacked you? Did you find where I had been personal in regards to my posts?

Here resty is my cheek, you can have at it because I love you.

[restornu]

John 14 15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.