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To: Robertsll
Maybe not, but it does not change the fact that a lot of Protestant martyrs (like Cranmer) went to their deaths not caring about Henry VIII, his wives, heirs, etc. The Reformation still happened, and was a real thing that grew bigger than Henry VII's marital problems.

I saw a recent documentary that suggested that Henry VII, late in life, was thinking of returning to Catholicism. His last wife was almsot executed for being too Protestant. Had Henry returned to Catholicism, do you think the rest of the Protestants in England would have done so too?

Whatever started the Reformation in England, it eventually had a life and momentum of its own. The constant assertion to say that "it only came about because of the divorce" is merely an attempt to belittle the movement, IMO.

12 posted on 03/22/2006 10:50:18 AM PST by Sans-Culotte (Meadows Place, TX-"Tom DeLay Country")
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To: Sans-Culotte
I saw a recent documentary that suggested that Henry VII, late in life, was thinking of returning to Catholicism. His last wife was almsot executed for being too Protestant. Had Henry returned to Catholicism, do you think the rest of the Protestants in England would have done so too?

Henry VIII had opened the door to ultra-nationalism and anti-papist sentiment. There was no going back to the ways things were.

Whatever started the Reformation in England, it eventually had a life and momentum of its own. The constant assertion to say that "it only came about because of the divorce" is merely an attempt to belittle the movement, IMO.

So you are telling me the Reformation in England did not have its origins in King Henry VIII declaring himself head of the Church of England so that he could divorce his wife?

13 posted on 03/22/2006 11:01:15 AM PST by Robertsll
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To: Sans-Culotte
Maybe not, but it does not change the fact that a lot of Protestant martyrs (like Cranmer) went to their deaths not caring about Henry VIII, his wives, heirs, etc.

Cranmer opposed true presence and supported the destruction of statues and holy images (both polar opposite views of Anglicans today). The person responsible for his "martyrdom" was the same person he bastardized. Cranmer gave support and legitimacy to many of Henry VIII's public actions, including some barbaric activities.

Like I said, there are some bad Catholics today, among them bishops, priest, and members of the laity. If they were killed for their disturbed beliefs and actions, I would be appalled, mourn their deaths and pray for their souls. I would not call them martyrs.

14 posted on 03/22/2006 11:32:59 AM PST by Robertsll
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To: Sans-Culotte

Henry VIII's dispute with the Vatican over his marriage to Catherine of Aragon provided an opportunity for the reform movement to develop and emerge out into the open. It would have come without the dispute but may not have been successful. The reign of Queen Mary was comparably short so while it was brutal toward those who adopted the reformed faith, Cranmer, Ridley and Latimmer for instance, it effectively ended with her death. On the other hand Catholic priests were drawn and quartered when caught during the 16th and 17th centuries. The political machinations of the Catholic Mary queen of Scots to take the throne of Elizabeth I didn't help. I have wondered about the House of Norfolk. The Duke of Norfolk is the leading Catholic layman in the UK. The family remained Catholic during the reformation . It is sad to this Evangelical to see the present day Anglican/Episcopel church to be at best quasi-Christian. I find that I have more in common with my Catholic brothers -in-Christ than with many other Protestants.


15 posted on 03/22/2006 11:33:49 AM PST by Upbeat
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