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To: Agrarian; stripes1776
I just ordered "From Dawn to Decadence" from the library. Thanks for the recommendation.

I recently finished "The Discarded Image." It was much more readable than I feared. The main point I carried away was that Medieval man was willing to admit that his conceptions of the universe were a theory, while the modern scientist insists that his facts are true. A good example is evolution. Try calling evolution a "theory" (even here on FR) and see the angry reaction from those who consider themselves scientists.

I have read most of C.S. Lewis, even some of his letters and diary, but I have not been able to make it through "The Allegory of Love." It's pretty deep, at least to me.

My current reading consists of books about small scale farming (my spiritual adviser counseled against continuing to read the Philokalia or other patristic works - at least for now). I am considering moving a small distance from the city - maybe trying a hobby farm. Time to put some Agrarian principles into action! My wife is all for it, but the kids are not.

8,378 posted on 06/11/2006 5:16:02 AM PDT by Martin Tell
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To: Martin Tell; Agrarian; stripes1776
"My current reading consists of books about small scale farming (my spiritual adviser counseled against continuing to read the Philokalia or other patristic works - at least for now)."

You know, it has been my experience that far too many people, especially converts, jump right into the Philokalia. Its a shame more spiritual fathers don't give the advice yours has given you. One particular penchant we in the West tend to have is to become quite legalistic. Without an appreciation for the phronema of Orthodoxy and the development of a certain degree of discernment, legalism can be soul destroying as a source of pride and destructive of mercy.

I am reminded of the book my wife's Ladies' Society from the parish is reading. It was chosen by relatively recent convert. Its called Facing East and was written by Fredrica Mathewes-Green. The "cradle" Orthodox women and longtime converts like my wife were really turned off by how enamored the author was of legalism, of the rules, in her first year or so as an Orthodox Christian. I understand that her subsequent books have backed way off that legalism, but the book is still out there, still playing into a natural tendency of Western converts to be legalistic. Anyway, reading the Philokalia early on can cause real problems. Your spiritual father has done you a great favor. You're lucky to have him.
8,380 posted on 06/11/2006 5:48:06 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Martin Tell; Kolokotronis

Wasn't "The Discarded Image" great? It really shows that man in every era has had subtlety and depth of thought.

Actually, it has been my experience that the people who have the greatest faith in science aren't scientists at all. Those who have training and experience in an area, if they are decent people to begin with, tend to be acutely aware of its limitations.

I've never made it through "The Allegory of Love," either. Someday. I also keep reading at the giant "English Literature in the 16th Century" -- if all one knows are Lewis' "Chronicles" and short religious essays, one is really missing out on seeing the underpinnings of his thought.

I love books about small-scale farming. Although I own and regularly spend time at the family ranch where we also do large-scale farming, and wouldn't trade my times there for the world, I must say that while the most "agrarian" times of my life are of course at the ranch, a close second was actually some years when I lived in a city of a million people. I dug up the edges of the entire back yard and a couple of small beds and gardened like crazy -- just to combat homesickness for the wide open spaces of home. You don't need a lot of space to go agrarian, just a backyard that gets plenty of sun!

The kids came to love being able to look at things growing, and then helping pick and put them on the table to eat. It was down south, so the growing season was very long, and I could start planting my peas, etc. very early, grow long-season items like peppers, and have a second late summer planting of leafy stuff for harvesting well into the fall.

I grew up on that large family ranching/farming operation, so I'm able to manage it as a business from afar and still really get my "agrarian" times while I'm there -- but frankly I wish I had more time to garden in my own back yard! I live close to downtown in my small city, because one of the problems with living out in the country is all the driving back and forth for activities for kids, once they really get involved. Eats up a lot of time. I also knew I had my own place in the country to run away to. If I didn't have it, I'd have to have one here.

If you move, certainly buy whatever acreage you can comfortably afford, but start small with your ambitions regarding gardening and farming -- free advice, which is probably worth what you paid for it!

I agree 100% with Kolokotronis. Just as one must start small with gardening, so too one must start small with spiritual reading. My long-time spiritual Father told me to stay away from the Philokalia (and certainly from reading canon law -- such as The Rudder.) I didn't even read "The Ladder" until just last year -- 15 years into all of this. I still haven't read the Philokalia.

And sometimes, it is good just to take a break from spiritual reading (but not from prayer!) for a time, and to read other things, in order to make sure one is connecting with one's life.

Sounds like you have a good guide.


8,382 posted on 06/11/2006 7:25:38 AM PDT by Agrarian
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