These are two very different things. I think that we are born dead IN sin, which means that we are compelled towards sin and that we will sin. At the time of regeneration, we become dead TO sin, which means that we are no longer slaves to sin, but rather slaves to righteousness. This is unrelated to whether we will actually sin again, the track record of humans says that we will, but we are not compelled to do so. Where does the Bible say that to be "alive in Christ" one must BE sinless, as opposed to having the goal of being sinless?
So theosis means never sinning again? Is theosis just like the Catholic model of eternal salvation in that it is achieved and lost based on subsequent sin? I always had the impression that theosis was more of a permanent concept.
And if you are like most of us, you can only hope, by honestly cleaving to God as best as you can all your life, even if you honestly fail, that God will have mercy on us and save us in the end.
That sounds a little bit too scary for me, I think I'll just rest in knowing instead. :) The beauty in knowing is that no matter what anyone says, you always have the direct word of God standing right behind you. You have to defend nothing of yourself.
Being dead to sin does not require intellect or belief. Mentally retarded, infants and children are all dead to sin, without knowing or professing Jesus Christ as their God.
I respectfully disagree. Every single time Paul refers to this idea in Romans 6, he is talking about believers ONLY. We all believe in special dispensations by the mercy of God, but Paul never talks about them in the context of being dead to sin. Being dead IN sin requires no intellect or belief. However, being dead TO sin does require a regenerated mind. Consider:
Rom. 6:10-12 : 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. 11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.
We are to be like Christ, who was dead to sin. He led His life to God. We are to do the same, but infants and the severely mentally handicapped cannot, nor do they have capacity to "let sin reign" one way or the other. Paul is only talking about believers.
We are slaves to righteousness only to the degree that we actually ARE righteous and not in sin...
"But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die." Ez 18:24
The saved who sin are turning from God
"If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all[a] sin." 1 John 1:6-7
Talk means nothing, only our walk
"No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:6-10
If you keep sinning, you are not from God.
"Count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness....Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey — whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? [said to CHRISTIANS!] ...For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[b] Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6: 11-13,16,23
Paul expects more from Christians. Those who return to sin are slaves to it
"Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God—or rather are known by God— how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?" Gal 4:8-9
Yep, Christians can return to slavery
"These men [Christians who are false teachers] are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit,"[f]and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud." 2 Peter 2:17-22
Ouch, that hurts... What does this mean for the initial false Protestant teachers?
Scripture tells us that those who enslaved themselves to sin will die. This includes those who previously had pledged themselves to God at one point in their lives. We are dead to sin WHEN we obey the commandments, WHEN Christ is within us. Not always. We are slaves to sin when we continue to sin. This is a fact.
Theosis is not about being perfect, but about humbly asking for forgiveness from God when we falter, not being presumptuous that God owes us salvation because we said a sentence or two 20 years ago. We are dead to sin ONLY to the capacity that we continue to follow God.
Regards
Mat 5:48
That sounds a little bit too scary for me, I think I'll just rest in knowing instead
Knowing what? That all you have to say "Lord, Lord" and you will be saved? You don't get it, do you? Most of Protestantism is easy. You keep saying that we are supposed to be Christ-like, but I really wonder if you have any clue what that means? Christ is nothing like any of of us.
For us to become Christ-like, everyithing that defines us must die, because neither you nor anyone of us eve comes close. So, I would worry, especially if I had deliusions of having been saved by a lucky draw.
"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." (notice here the word "find it"; it should tell you that it was not decided before all ages).
And, remember that "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." There's nothing easy about it! You've got to give a lot to reach theosis -- your whole life in fact!
Luther made it easy. That's why it spread like wild fire: no more fasts, no more confessions and, best of all, pecca fortiter (sin bodly), sin all you want...easy, just be yourself, you have been "elected" from before aeons, so "don't worry, be happy." What virtue! And all that made to look like theology.
We are to be like Christ, who was dead to sin. He led His life to God. We are to do the same, but infants and the severely mentally handicapped cannot, nor do they have capacity to "let sin reign" one way or the other
Hmmmm...."Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Mat 18:3) and "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." (Mat 19:14)
Ah, FK, you need more +Gregory Palamas. You'll never get that M.Div in Orthodoxy Theology at this rate:
"After our forefather's transgression in paradise through the tree, we suffered the death of our soul - which is the separation of the soul from God - prior to our bodily death; yet although we cast away our divine likeness, we did not lose our divine image. Thus when the soul renounces its attachment to inferior things and cleaves through love to God and submits itself to Him through acts and modes of virtue, it is illuminated and made beautiful by God and is raised to a higher level, obeying His counsels and exhortations; and by these means it regains the truly eternal life. Through this life it makes the body conjoined to it immortal, so that in due time the body attains the promised resurrection and participates in eternal glory."
And this:
"Death, properly speaking, is this: for the soul to be unharnessed from divine grace and to be yoked to sin ... Let us cast away, let us reject all things, bid farewell to all things: to all relationships, actions and intentions that drag us downward, separate us from God and produce such a death. He who is frightened of this death and has preserved himself from it will not be alarmed by the oncoming death of the body, for in him the true life dwells, and bodily death, so far from taking true life away, renders it inalienable."