Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: HarleyD
If memory serves me correctly, it was the Church that asked Luther to recant; the Church never questioned whether it was in error. It was 100 years later that the Church finally admitted that selling indulgences was a bad thing. Rome was obviously wrong and admitted so by its action. Luther did turn to the writings of the scriptures to prove they were wrong. They just didn’t want to hear it. Now given that situation what would you do? Would you ignore what is in the scriptures and just go along with the crowd recanting what the Bible states or, would you take your stand with the Bible and face up the Church? This is, after all, what this article is about.

I agree, Harley. It wasn't just the indulgences after all, it was other things that evidenced a mindset absolutely incapable of true introspection on the part of those who had the power to bring about the much needed reforms. If memory serves me correctly, a hundred years later, in France, the Church brutally murdered Chevalier de la Barre (they pulled out his tongue for God's sake!), for either refusing to doff his hat to a procession of Capuchin monks or for uttering some blasphemy, depending on your historical source. Then came the Council of Trent, and your point becomes even stronger.

At that time, and as I see it, the Church considered itself the equal of Almighty God, and possibly even His superior (bound by nothing), and not merely the human institution that Christ left behind to propagate the Faith. When Our Lord Jesus left St. Peter the 'keys of the kingdom' he also noted that His Kingdom was not of this world, but that seems to have been lost on so many of the boys in Rome.

That tyranny which the Church was so addicted to left its mark on many of us who were born and reared Catholics between the two great Vatican Councils. My grammar school class of 25 kids yielded so very few practicing Catholics. I could spit nails when I think of how they terrorized us, and made God out to be a ruthless, unapproachable dictator who placed big, black X-marks on your soul when you committed mortal sin. It wasn't just me who looked down my blouse to see if the blackness was showing through, and there was no priest, monsignor or bishop who would have come to your aid, so when they say the Church is where the Bishop is, I can believe it. When it comes right down to it, we loved the Church when we were kids, but the Church didn't have a big enough heart to love us in return.

7,108 posted on 05/24/2006 7:11:44 AM PDT by AlbionGirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7105 | View Replies ]


To: AlbionGirl
If memory serves me correctly, a hundred years later, in France, the Church brutally murdered Chevalier de la Barre (they pulled out his tongue for God's sake!), for either refusing to doff his hat to a procession of Capuchin monks or for uttering some blasphemy, depending on your historical source. Then came the Council of Trent, and your point becomes even stronger.

Your history is off a bit. The Council of Trent was convened in 1545 - twenty-five years of so after Luther came on the scene, not "a hundred". It ended in 1563. The 25th and last session included a decree on indulgences - although the Pope had already stemmed the tide of abuses by then. If you look at all of the decrees of Trent, you'll see it was very comprehensive, because the Reformers had questioned practically everything that the Church had believed and done for the past 1500 years...The Reformation went WAY beyond a "reform". It was a total break away from the Church - where every man was his own pope.

At that time, and as I see it, the Church considered itself the equal of Almighty God, and possibly even His superior (bound by nothing), and not merely the human institution that Christ left behind to propagate the Faith.

Those ideas I have seen from individual priests and bishops, but not the Church as a whole. If that were so, the Church wouldn't bother to look to its past, but would make up new doctrines that had no past basis or belief by the faithful.

I could spit nails when I think of how they terrorized us, and made God out to be a ruthless, unapproachable dictator who placed big, black X-marks on your soul when you committed mortal sin.

The effects of Jansenism - a heresy that was a rigorist, legalistic approach to God - still had lingering effects on some of the nuns and attitudes of the parishoners who thought of themselves as "holier-than-thou". All of this is a point well taken. I don't recall EVERYONE being like that, though! However, is your faith based on God and what HE did or on the individual man or woman of the Church? Man will ALWAYS let you down. By putting all trust in them - and watching them fall flat on their face - is a formula for falling away from the Church.

Place your faith in God, not the individuals within the Church. Know that God has given us the Church to come to Him through the sacraments and community. There will always be weeds among the fields.

Regards

7,110 posted on 05/24/2006 8:11:22 AM PDT by jo kus (For love is of God; and everyone that loves is born of God, and knows God. 1Jn 4:7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7108 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson