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To: Forest Keeper
If you say that any love is the same as knowing Christ, then I would disagree. "Love" has been given as the reason for multitudes of ungodly acts

Not the Biblical notion of love. People may try to justify their actions under the auspice of love, but it is self-love in reality. When someone self-sacrifices, they are loving, and this is NEVER sinful, when done for the love of God and others.

I don't believe that anyone can choose to do God's will or to love on his own, whether he knows of the scriptures or not.

So when Paul says we are a new creation, and that we have the ability to live in the Spirit, he really means we are puppets and can do no good? Hardly. Paul makes it pretty clear that the old man and the new man in Christ have different capabilities. You would have us the exact same except that the "regenerated" man is merely a legal title with no additional abilities or charecteristics. That is patently untrue. In Christ, I can do powerful deeds of love.

God will touch those whom He chooses, and they will obey and love.

Again, the Scriptures say that man can choose to obey God or reject Him. Thus on this basis, we are judged.

Regards

5,379 posted on 05/02/2006 5:04:02 AM PDT by jo kus (I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart...Psalm 119:32)
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To: jo kus
People may try to justify their actions under the auspice of love, but it is self-love in reality. When someone self-sacrifices, they are loving, and this is NEVER sinful, when done for the love of God and others.

I can agree with the general principle you are stating, but relating back to our discussion of necessity and Christ on the cross, what would you say about a poor man who leaps off a building so that his family can collect on a life insurance policy? Assume he genuinely thought he was doing it out of love. Did he sin?

So when Paul says we are a new creation, and that we have the ability to live in the Spirit, he really means we are puppets and can do no good? Hardly. Paul makes it pretty clear that the old man and the new man in Christ have different capabilities.

I agree with Paul (or is it Luke? :) . I don't think of us as puppets because none of us experiences it like that. After regeneration, we do have new abilities. One is the ability to please God. Another is the ability to be sanctified. I just see it as God working through us, when before regeneration, He did not work through us to please Him or become sanctified. We still experience it as making choices to do so.

5,630 posted on 05/04/2006 1:04:10 PM PDT by Forest Keeper
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