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To: Forest Keeper
But Jesus was condemned and cursed by the Jews. That was Jewish tradition for the crime of blasphemy.

Wrong! That is the Word of God! It is NOT a "tradition" as you say...

"And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree; his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt surely bury him the same day; for he that is hanged is accursed of God" Deut 21:22-23

According to the "Book", Jesus was a "failed Messiah". They expected someone who would save them, free them from slavery. They expected a righteous man, not one who worked on the sabbath, ate with sinners, and flaunted purification rituals. By all accounts of Torah, the Jews who held to the Scripture alone, Jesus was NOT the Messiah. The Scripture even says God condemned him. Look at this from a Jew's perspective and lense for a second...

See, the problem was something called "cognitive dissonance". That is when a conviction you have firmly held to is thrown into jeopardy by an experience that you have. The Apostles experienced the Risen LORD! But their world of Torah told them that Jesus COULDN'T be the Messiah! He hung from a tree! Thus, a whole new paradigm had to come into being, one that explained the Torah in a new light. The old wineskins would NOT do!

Brother, read the end of Luke's Gospel. HERE is where Jesus EXPLAINS THE SCRIPTURES!

"he {Jesus} said unto them, O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Behooved it not the Christ to suffer these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself." Luke 24:25-27

Thus, Jesus solves their cognitive dissonance by bringing about a new paradigm. Jesus does not deny their experience of His resurrection, nor does He deny that the OT was the Word of God. But now, He gives them a new manner of looking at the Scriptures. "Christ is hidden in the Old Testament". Like the Essenes, the first Christians looked to the Prophetic Books of the OT, seeing their community as the ongoing fulfillment of God's Word found in Scriptures. By receiving the fullness of revelation that God would give men, Christianity was able to explain the experience of the Risen Lord, AND to keep the OT Scriptures as point to Christ (but in a different way then the Jews would have thought to look).

I slavishly follow the book because it is of God, and I do not slavishly follow men.

You follow yourself, correct? Thus, you slavishly follow a man - not knowing whether God is guiding you or not.

And all this time you have been arguing that if a notion was commonly held, it must have been right. The popularity argument. I'm glad to see that you now allow for some popular views to have been wrong.

Do we or do we not agree that the Jews had incomplete revelation? That is no longer applicable to us. God has sent the Christ to lead us to all truth. Your argument won't apply anymore. The Spirit leads the Church.

Regards

4,125 posted on 03/28/2006 4:40:46 PM PST by jo kus (I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore CHOOSE life - Deut 30:19)
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To: jo kus
FK: "But Jesus was condemned and cursed by the Jews. That was Jewish tradition for the crime of blasphemy."

Wrong! That is the Word of God! It is NOT a "tradition" as you say ... According to the "Book", Jesus was a "failed Messiah". ...

I think you are completely missing my point. The "Book" doesn't say that Jesus was a failed Messiah, the "Book" says that the JEWS said He was a failed Messiah. The "Book" also says THEY WERE WRONG! Deut. could not possibly have meant that an innocent man hung from a tree was truly accursed of God. That would not even be man's justice.

Thus, Jesus solves their cognitive dissonance by bringing about a new paradigm.

Jesus corrects the error of the interpretation of the Jews, He does not correct the scriptures themselves. You sort of say this, but then you say "Christ is hidden in the Old Testament". I don't agree with that at all. Obviously He was more fully revealed when He appeared, but all those who had faith in the OT knew of His coming.

You follow yourself, correct? Thus, you slavishly follow a man - not knowing whether God is guiding you or not.

No, that is just your accusation, just as I accuse you of following men not necessarily led by God. In a way it is very similar.

Do we or do we not agree that the Jews had incomplete revelation?

Yes, as compared to the revelation that Jesus completed. And, the Jews still had enough revelation to be saved.

4,302 posted on 04/02/2006 11:20:53 PM PDT by Forest Keeper
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