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To: HarleyD
If a person has difficulties in reconciling the God of the Old Testament with the God of the New, it suggests to me there is some fundamental error in their theology. There is no difference.

Sure there is, as you pointed out when you quoted St. Augustine and the relationship between the OT and the NT. God gradually revealed Himself - first hazily through the prophets of the OT, and more concretely and completely through Jesus Christ. We as Christians are to read the OT in light of the NT revelation given to us. Thus, this talk about a jealous, wrathful God is not the true picture of Whom Christ revealed.

the completed work of Christ that God placed His Spirit permanently in us to cause us to walk according to His commands.

Where does the Scripture say that the Spirit is PERMANENTLY in us?

Christians do not like to talk much these days about the wrath of God. However our Lord Jesus talked far more about hell and damnation then He did of the love of God.

That's utterly false. While Christ mentions hell on several occasions, He mentions love numerous times...And besides, your idea of "wrath of God" differs from the NT idea. For example, read Romans 1:

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions" Romans 1:18-26

God's wrath is not seen as an active power that reprobates, but a passive one that allows the wicked to "dig their own grave". A careful reading of the Psalms also yields the same concept. It is the wicked who are to blame for their separation from God.

If someone wants to talk about the love of Christ as it is used in its distorted framework of today, then they need to pay close attention to the wrath poured out in Revelation

Few people interpret Revelations as literal history of the end of the world, but symbolic, apocalyptic language. "A three feet deep river of blood flowing through the streets?" Considering 4 quarts of blood per person, how many people would it take to get 3 feet of blood to flow down the streets of Jerusalem? This is symbolic language!

But God doesn't show love to those who are outside of His covenant

God desires that ALL men be saved - He died for the sin of ALL men.

He does not stand outside some door knocking hoping we will open the door.

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. " Rev 3:20

Note, it says "IF ANY MAN...."

The trouble is that is difficult for some to comprehend, God doesn't do this for everyone

God's graces are available for everyone. Otherwise, why would Ezekiel write:

But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: [and] not that he should return from his ways, and live? Ez 18:21-24

The problem is that you don't understand God's great love for ALL men - and that some men refuse this love.

Regards

3,398 posted on 03/09/2006 6:52:26 AM PST by jo kus (I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore CHOOSE life - Deut 30:19)
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To: jo kus
God gradually revealed Himself - first hazily through the prophets of the OT, and more concretely and completely through Jesus Christ.

Where does the Scripture say that the Spirit is PERMANENTLY in us?

That's utterly false. While Christ mentions hell on several occasions, He mentions love numerous times.

God's wrath is not seen as an active power that reprobates, but a passive one that allows the wicked to "dig their own grave".

God desires that ALL men be saved


3,406 posted on 03/09/2006 9:58:14 AM PST by HarleyD ("A man's steps are from the Lord, How then can man understand his way?" Prov 20:24 (HNV))
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