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To: Forest Keeper
Then why does every purely human man who has ever lived always chosen sin over God without His help?

It is in our nature to believe that which we can see, taste and feel.

When we make a decision, we make a decision that we believe is good for us first and foremost. In doing that, we exclude God, and without God everything we do, even our life, is meaningles -- it's a Lie (and therefore the domain of satan); as opposed to God, who is Truth.

I would dare say that even those who go to church do so because of selfish reasons -- they believe it is good for them; certainly God doesn't need us. Apostolic Christians (Orthodox/Catholic) go to church to receive sacraments, in line with Church teaching that we need to.

Protestants, on the other hand, have no sacraments to receive from valid clergy, so why do they even go to church? To glorify God, we all say. But is it?

Take out salvation and count the number of people who come to church on the fingers of one hand. No one goes to church to glorify God, but to seek favor, to assure salvation, life everlasting.

So, you see, even when you think you are doing good, if you are doing it for yourself, you are committing evil because your motives are not to glorify God, but to profit from Him. Take out the profit and the churches would empty in a blink of an eye.

The 100% to zero is simply true because we do not love God with all our heart, mind and soul; nor do we love our nieghbor as oursleves. Not because we can't but because we won't; because we choose not to.

When I asked you a hypothetical question if you would kill your children on God's command, you answered wisely -- hoping it would be the same as with Abraham! But I doubt that you would ever honestly raise a sword to kill your children in good faith without questioning God (and thereby committing sin).

That's what +Paul means when he says that none are righteous, not one. Not one of us can say "Thy will be done" and accept whatever comes our way in peace and complete tranquility knowing that whatever happens to us will be infinitely merciful anf just. We all doubt God, FK, and we all seek assurances because of that doubt which we do not like to admit. But, doubt it is. No one, not one, has complete confidence in God or else we would never choose evil.

3,372 posted on 03/08/2006 3:53:37 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
It is in our nature to believe that which we can see, taste and feel. When we make a decision, we make a decision that we believe is good for us first and foremost. In doing that, we exclude God, and without God everything we do, even our life, is meaningles -- it's a Lie (and therefore the domain of satan); as opposed to God, who is Truth.

I agree. Without God, all we have is our own nature, which always leads away from God. Animals will only ever have their own natures. Therefore, neither have free will without God.

Protestants, on the other hand, have no sacraments to receive from valid clergy, so why do they even go to church? To glorify God, we all say. But is it?

Take out salvation and count the number of people who come to church on the fingers of one hand. No one goes to church to glorify God, but to seek favor, to assure salvation, life everlasting.

Judging our motives for going to church, eh? Not very Biblical, is it? :) Actually, none of us go to assure salvation because, from our perception, salvation occurs in a single moment in time. Our new, regenerated hearts tell us to obey God's will and go to church to worship God. We don't earn any God points for going, we go because we want to obey God, and yes, it is good for us. It is a primary means of sanctification, and we who have regenerated hearts all seek after it because we have a new nature.

But I doubt that you would ever honestly raise a sword to kill your children in good faith without questioning God (and thereby committing sin).

And I pray I never have to find out! :) But in today's modern world who could ever know with certainty how he would react. In Abraham's time God spoke directly to him in real words, a kind of a "burning bush" moment. I don't think that happens much today, and I know it has never happened to me. It's very hard to make a comparison. Of course, if I did agree to do it, it would not be because of the faith in me, it would be from strong enough faith given to me by God. We all honor Abraham for his faith, but it really came from God, not from himself.

3,481 posted on 03/12/2006 2:50:28 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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