There is no way I could possibly top the wonderful article Harley gave us in 2904. When We Belong To Christ. (Thank you so much, Harley) I know it's long, but it is PACKED with scripture. We really believe that God's word is LOADED with good reasons why we CAN be assured and why we SHOULD be assured.
EVERYTHING that we have is from God, whether in the natural world or in the supernatural. Thus, when we make a decision, God is involved in some manner. HE formed the intellect, He formed our will. Yet, God does not overwhelm our nature with His Grace.
Except for the last part, this sounds pretty good. If God does not overwhelm us, then there must some good in us that we are born with that can be used for this cooperation. I think your side says that we are wounded, as opposed to being dead in sin. I believe that scripture alone, especially from Paul, is on our side.
IF a person who has undergone the washing of sins, is justified in God's eyes - can still sin - doesn't this mean that EVEN IN THIS STATE, we are free to sin or not to sin? Certainly, God helps us to avoid sin. But even among the most holy, sin is still a threat.
Speaking for myself, although I think I'm on the reservation on this, I have always said that after salvation we have some free will ability to sin. This must be so because we do sin and God doesn't cause sin.
[On salvation:] God didn't promise to YOU directly! He promised to His elect. I don't find a passage anywhere in the Scriptures that tells me "Joe, when he will be baptized, is of the elect". Certainly, just because we are baptized doesn't mean we are of the elect, either! We have already agreed on that.
Well, I'm forced to agree with you completely, especially since I don't think baptism has anything to do with salvation. :)
The Bible promises the ELECT will be saved. We must be careful in giving ourselves this title based on subjective feelings within us - feelings that change with time.
We don't base our assurance at all on subjective feelings. We base it on God's promises in his word, which are detailed at extreme length in the article that Harley gave us. This is not a one verse proof. This is a major and well developed theme in the Bible. Multiple verses from many different books of the Bible must all be interpreted away in order to NOT have assurance.
And your link contains a tremendous misinterpretation of Hebrews 6. Paul writes in Hebrews 6:4-8:
For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the holy Spirit and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are recrucifying the Son of God for themselves and holding him up to contempt. Ground that has absorbed the rain falling upon it repeatedly and brings forth crops useful to those for whom it is cultivated receives a blessing from God. But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is rejected; it will soon be cursed and finally burned. But we are sure in your regard, beloved, of better things related to salvation, even though we speak in this way. For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love you have demonstrated for his name by having served and continuing to serve the holy ones.
The plain meaning of this passage is that those who fall away from Christ are damned, but the recipients of Paul's letter had not fallen away, but done pleasing works and service. It was understood as such in the early Church, and, in fact, an extreme reading of this passage contributed to the Novationist heresy of the 3rd Century and the Donatist heresy of the 4th Century.
But the linked article instead interprets these passages as follows:
After time farmland will reveal whether its crop is good or bad. So it is with people; some really do not believe; their lives produce weeds. Land that produces thorns and thistles will be burned (v.8); it is no good. Those who belong to Christ produce a good crop (v.7). Things that always accompany salvation will appear in a believer’s life (v.9). The specific example given is the love they showed to God by helping His people (v.10).The bolded sections completely transpose cause and effect. Further, there is nothing in Hebrews 6 that suggests that the fallen-away never believed. The author of the article cites 1 John 2:9 for the proposition that apostates--those who repudiate the Lord--were never saved in the first place, "so they did not lose what they never had." But what does 1 John 2:8-11 really say?
And yet I do write a new commandment to you, which holds true in him and among you, for the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining. Whoever says he is in the light, yet hates his brother, is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother remains in the light, and there is nothing in him to cause a fall. Whoever hates his brother is in darkness; he walks in darkness and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.The "new commandment" is Jesus'--to love your neighbor as yourself. He who does not follow this commandment sins. Nothing in 1 John 2 states that the sinner was never "saved;" indeed, John anticipates that the recipients of his letter have sinned, but exhorts them to take Jesus seriously by living according to his teachings.
With such willfull misreadings, picked at random, I shudder to think what other errors are in this article.
Does any of this make a practical difference in the way that you live your life and the way that I live my life? I suspect not. I'm sure that you try to follow Jesus' teachings, avoid sin, seek God, and live your faith, as do I. But I know that I am a miserable sinner whose only hope for salvation is to have faith in God and do as Jesus said, while you are assured that you are one of the elect.
You responded : Except for the last part, this sounds pretty good. If God does not overwhelm us, then there must some good in us that we are born with that can be used for this cooperation. I think your side says that we are wounded, as opposed to being dead in sin. I believe that scripture alone, especially from Paul, is on our side.
Perhaps you should read my response again...Check out the captitalized word "EVERYTHING". So where am I saying that something comes from us ALONE? What I am saying is that God expects us to USE the gifts He gave us - the power to choose Him. I don't believe that Scripture is on "your side". I believe you are reading Protestant theology into the verses that are just not there - as I have demonstrated with Romans 3 and the Psalms where Paul draws from. WICKED men do not seek God. But do you really think that ALL men do not seek God? The Old Testament would heartily disagree with that.
Well, I'm forced to agree with you completely, {on Baptism's effect on absolutely saving someone for heaven} especially since I don't think baptism has anything to do with salvation. :)
Well, the same holds true for "sinner's prayer" as well. Otherwise, why do so many feel the need to repeat it, or later wonder whether it "took"? This makes the "sinner's prayer" a works-oriented salvational tool. You rely on YOUR OWN faith to determine if God has saved you.
We don't base our assurance at all on subjective feelings. We base it on God's promises in his word, which are detailed at extreme length in the article that Harley gave us
The article merely outlays the promises made to the elect. Again, you are presuming you are of the elect, based on your sinner's prayer. We have time and again exposed this error. As we have stated in 1 John, we can know we are saved by our faith working through love. When we obey the Law of Love - we "know" that God is abiding within us AT THAT MOMENT. But it doesn't follow that He will always remain there - that we won't chase Him out. Again, as you have suggested, we STILL continue to be free to sin. And you again have stated that sin kills the soul - which means that God has left it. Will we enter heaven with a dead soul? If we willingly turn away from God, what happens over and over in the Scriptures? The argument presented by "When we belong to Christ" presumes that we are of the elect - knowledge that we only can HOPE upon, since we do not know God's will for us, or our response in the future to His callings.
Regards