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To: kosta50
FK: "Does this mean that the Father existed before Christ and the Spirit, and that the Father created them?

They are not creatures, FK. Let's make that clear. As regards the Son and the Spirit, the Father is the source and cause of everything and all, including the divinity, but in the case of the divinity we cannot speak in terms of time.

Where does "creatures" come from? :) I'm just trying to figure out if you think the trinity has always been the trinity, or if you think there was first the Father only, who created the Son and Spirit to form the trinity.

That being the limitation, we know that if something is begotten, it must have a source and cause. If something proceeds from something, it must have a source and cause. God the Father has neither the source nor cause. He is Existence, and everything that exists is from Him, including the Son and the Spirit.

I'm interpreting this to mean you agree with the latter statement of my above. Is that correct? I would respectfully disagree about "begotten" because I see it as referring to the "man" Jesus, who was obviously "begotten". I would say that "The Son" was in full existence well before He was "begotten".

2,868 posted on 02/21/2006 3:20:51 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50
I'm interpreting this to mean you agree with the latter statement of my above. Is that correct? I would respectfully disagree about "begotten" because I see it as referring to the "man" Jesus, who was obviously "begotten". I would say that "The Son" was in full existence well before He was "begotten".

No, begotten refers to the Logos before He became flesh. Begotten has nothing to do with the Incarnation of our Lord, but tries to explain how Wisdom came from the Father before time began.. There never was a time where the Fathere existed but the Son did not. To say otherwise would be to stray into Arianism.

Regards

2,873 posted on 02/21/2006 4:22:09 AM PST by jo kus
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis
Where does "creatures" come from?

That which is created is a creature. That which is divine is uncreated. I am beginning to believe you are rather new at this, since you are not familiar with much of the standard theological vocabulary.

I would respectfully disagree about "begotten" because I see it as referring to the "man" Jesus, who was obviously "begotten". I would say that "The Son" was in full existence well before He was "begotten"

If that is what you believe, you are not a Christian. Jesus is Incarnate; the Son is begotten from the Father. You are making up your own theology as you go along, FK, that much is obvious.

2,878 posted on 02/21/2006 3:26:29 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50

"I would respectfully disagree about "begotten" because I see it as referring to the "man" Jesus, who was obviously "begotten". I would say that "The Son" was in full existence well before He was "begotten"."

But FK, the Creed says "...begotten of the Father before all ages...."

I have always assumed that Baptists, indeed all Christians, accept the Nicene Creed (either with or without the filioque). Was I wrong about the Baptists?


2,882 posted on 02/21/2006 3:57:41 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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