Replies

You have an interesting way of looking at theosis and "election", FK. Let me suggest that when you speak of God "not allowing" the elect to fall away, you are surely expressing belief in predestination of the sort which The Church rejects The Church teaches that God foreknows all things but does not teach that that ipso facto means that He predestines all things. Similarly with the concept of the "elect", God foreknows who the elect will be; that doesn't mean that He presdestines anyone for election. I am sure that we have discussed this before on this thread, but when we as time defined beings discuss much of anything, we think and speak in terms of pre and post, the past, the future and the present. Such concepts would be of absolutely no use to W WN.

Our Triune God as W WN, is the ultimate of everything and then more than that. As such He is the ultimate in Free Will. If our created purpose, the potential attainment of which we lost at the Fall and regained by the Incarnation, is that men become "wholly gods", that is to say that we attain not only the image, but also the likeness of God, then our actions perforce are the result of our exercises of our divinely bestowed free will and that free will can be used to become like God, or to turn away from God in favor of mortal pleasures and pursuits. As Kosta says, God doesn't force anything on us and allows us to be completely free, free even to reject Him. Without the Incarnation, our free will could not be exercised in such a fashion as to attain theosis because we were in bondage to hades and death. Once that power was broken by the Incarnation, we were able to respond (yes, I know!) to the uncreated energies of God which had been raining down on us from the day of creation and futilely since the Fall, and by the exercise of our free will, choose to obey God and thereby receive the fire of the Holy Spirit in our souls. That fire leads to knowledge of God Who is The Truth, "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (Jn 8:32) Free to do what? To beome "wholly gods". But +John's use of the word "free" implies a true freedom, not simply a transference from a bondage to death to a slavery to some sort of divine puppet master. Again, it all comes back to two things. What was and is our created purpose and what really is meant by the English word "sin". The answers to those questions determine quite literally everything we believe about our role in Creation and our relationship to God both now and for eternity.

Let me suggest that when you speak of God "not allowing" the elect to fall away, you are surely expressing belief in predestination of the sort which The Church rejects.

I think you are absolutely right! :) The more I learn about reformed theology, the more it rings true to me.

Similarly with the concept of the "elect", God foreknows who the elect will be; that doesn't mean that He presdestines anyone for election.

I'm not sure how comfortable I am with these terms yet, but would that be called a "fully" Pelagian view? :) Is this a fair summary: double predestination (Calvinism) is what Harley and I believe, single predestination (also known as semi-Pelagionism or Arminianism) is what the Catholics believe, and no predestination (Pelagionism) is the Orthodox view? (I'm just trying to get comfortable using these terms on my own. :)

Again, it all comes back to two things. What was and is our created purpose and what really is meant by the English word "sin". The answers to those questions determine quite literally everything we believe about our role in Creation and our relationship to God both now and for eternity.

Am I correct in thinking that by a person's view of sin determining his belief about his relationship with God, you are referring to your rejection of original sin? I know that you all say that sin is "missing the mark", of Jesus. I suppose I would use a label such as "evil". I think you may have, but if you haven't already answered this, what is the concrete difference between sin and evil? I suppose I would see evil as anything apart from God. I know you would never say that sin is "acceptable" in any manner, I just had an impression that your view was that evil was "worse" than sin.