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Federal Social Programs and Catholic Principles
Catholic Culture ^ | 10.05.05 | Peter Mirus

Posted on 11/11/2005 10:52:44 PM PST by Coleus

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1 posted on 11/11/2005 10:52:47 PM PST by Coleus
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To: Coleus; Huber; NCSteve; TaxRelief

Socialism is evil. It is the opposite of Christian charity. It turns productive citizens into slaves, and unproductive citizens into domestic animals.

To the extent that Church leaders encourage "society" or "the state" to take over the duties of individuals, families, churches, and private organizations, they are not on the side of God but of Marx.

("Government is not God" ping, y'all)


2 posted on 11/12/2005 4:36:52 AM PST by Tax-chick (I'm not being paid enough to worry about all this stuff ... so I don't.)
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To: Tax-chick

Yep. I was just thinking about the the anti-family nature of the welfare system and the problems it spawned.


3 posted on 11/12/2005 4:50:12 AM PST by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum

You must have been on some of the threads where the conjunction of "poor" and "children" brings out a few dozen people yelling, "They're just like animals ... sterilize them!"

Socialism destroys the humanity of everyone involved.


4 posted on 11/12/2005 5:25:19 AM PST by Tax-chick (I'm not being paid enough to worry about all this stuff ... so I don't.)
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To: Tax-chick
Socialism destroys the humanity of everyone involved.

I wish I could believe that it is "socialism" which brings out these responses. I think it's something more fundamental in our nature itself--more like Original Sin. To mention just one example, Rick Santorum's really thoughtful discussion of subsidiarity and social justice is the sort of thing some FReepers cite as evidence that he is a crackpot. What other sort of politician would take seriously the religious principles he professes to believe?

5 posted on 11/12/2005 5:43:23 AM PST by madprof98
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To: madprof98
I think it's something more fundamental in our nature itself--more like Original Sin.

Well, that's certainly true at the rock-bottom level. However, there are some social structures that are more conducive to the operation of Grace upon nature, and some that are less so.

What other sort of politician would take seriously the religious principles he professes to believe?

LOL! Many people have bought the idea that a society can function without reference to moral, that is religious, principles. The outcome in France would be instructive for them, if they're looking closely :-).

6 posted on 11/12/2005 7:43:19 AM PST by Tax-chick (I'm not being paid enough to worry about all this stuff ... so I don't.)
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To: Tax-chick
The tenets of redistributionism and "social justice" are antithetical to Christian teaching:

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

I have to take issue with Pope Leo (and the author) on one small point, though:

...it is proper that the individual and the family should be permitted to retain their freedom of action, so far as this is possible without jeopardizing the common good.

Christ said, "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." He did not say, "except where it suits the common good." There can be no exceptions: secular government must be excluded from the construct of the family and from the enforcement of charity. Any other condition is non-Christian and immoral.

7 posted on 11/12/2005 8:39:50 AM PST by NCSteve
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To: NCSteve

I think you're right about the "common good" point, except in the most general sense, since individuals' or families' "freedom of action" has to constrained by general laws against murder, theft, assault, etc.


8 posted on 11/12/2005 8:59:28 AM PST by Tax-chick (I'm not being paid enough to worry about all this stuff ... so I don't.)
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To: madprof98

" I think it's something more fundamental in our nature itself--more like Original Sin."

Well, yes, certainly socialism is a reverberation of Original Sin. "You shall be as gods," the serpent said to Eve. IOW, you need not consult God as to matters of right and wrong; you can decide these things for yourself. Using your godlike intellectual powers you can design a utopia.

Surely "we are as gods" is the uncanny wail of the socialist.

"We can decide for ourselves how people should act, what is moral and immoral, who should have his property taken away and to whom it should be given." (Never mind that "Thou shalt not steal" stuff and that bit about not coveting. That's for the superstitious.)

"We can decide for ourselves what forms marriage should take and what types of sexual activity should be endorsed." (Every form of utopianism for at least the past 500 years, most especially including socialism and communism, has held out a promise of increased sexual license.)

The whole thing positively reeks of Original Sin, which is why I always say that leftism, whatever label it happens to be claiming at any given time, is of and from Satan.


9 posted on 11/12/2005 9:31:20 AM PST by dsc
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To: Tax-chick
After reading the Rerum Novarum, I think that's exactly what Pope Leo intended. In the very next paragraph he says:

Now, it is to the interest of the community, as well as of the individual, that peace and good order should be maintained; that all things should be carried on in accordance with God's laws and those of nature; that the discipline of family life should be observed and that religion should be obeyed; that a high standard of morality should prevail, both in public and private life; that justice should be held sacred and that no one should injure another with impunity; that the members of the commonwealth should grow up to man's estate strong and robust, and capable, if need be, of guarding and defending their country.

This indicates he takes the common good to be founded on peace and order rather than some elitist vision of "equality." And, of course, Pope Leo cites natural law in his defense of "the common good." The left has hijacked parts of this language to press their agenda, knowing that most of the unwashed masses will not take the time to critically examine the point.

10 posted on 11/12/2005 9:50:24 AM PST by NCSteve
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To: Tax-chick
Socialism is evil. It is the opposite of Christian charity. It turns productive citizens into slaves, and unproductive citizens into domestic animals.

To the extent that Church leaders encourage "society" or "the state" to take over the duties of individuals, families, churches, and private organizations, they are not on the side of God but of Marx.

("Government is not God" ping, y'all)

Conversely, capitalism in its purest form is pretty evil too. Well, actually, all systems, economic, political, or otherwise are flawed and evil to some extent. That's why it's important for a Christian (Catholic, Orthodox, or otherwise) to consider themselves a Christian first, a citizen second, and a party memeber third.
11 posted on 11/12/2005 10:19:18 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: madprof98
To mention just one example, Rick Santorum's really thoughtful discussion of subsidiarity and social justice is the sort of thing some FReepers cite as evidence that he is a crackpot. What other sort of politician would take seriously the religious principles he professes to believe?

And then throws his support to baby killing Arlen Specter? Santorum's a political hack, no more and no less. And when he loses to Casey next year, it'll be well deserved. Good riddance.
12 posted on 11/12/2005 10:21:15 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: Tax-chick

A democracy cannot survive without a free market because the competition between business and government ensures protection of private property rights; limits the government's ability to write restrictive laws and fosters a desire within citizens to create wealth by creating businesses. The creation of wealth results in the creation of legitimate jobs.

Individuals have an overwhelming, innate desire to perform in a job that actually contributes to society.

Off topic, but it had to be said.


13 posted on 11/12/2005 11:19:00 AM PST by TaxRelief ("Conservatives are cracking down!" -- Rush Limbaugh, October 13, 2005)
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To: NCSteve

Thanks for following up on that. I've always thought Pope Leo XIII was a cutie :-).


14 posted on 11/12/2005 12:27:53 PM PST by Tax-chick (I'm not being paid enough to worry about all this stuff ... so I don't.)
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To: Conservative til I die
Conversely, capitalism in its purest form is pretty evil too.

I disagree. Capitalism, or let us say, "a free-market economy" is based on the majority of people's making free decisions regarding economic ends and means. Because people are limited in their knowledge and often flawed in their intentions, there is indeed scope for evil. However, the system is not, in itself, based upon immoral premises, as socialism is.

Socialism, as I observed in my earlier post, ultimately removes from people even the opportunity to act out of genuine Christian charity toward their neighbors.

15 posted on 11/12/2005 12:32:07 PM PST by Tax-chick (I'm not being paid enough to worry about all this stuff ... so I don't.)
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To: TaxRelief

Thanks for saying it :-).


16 posted on 11/12/2005 12:36:09 PM PST by Tax-chick (I'm not being paid enough to worry about all this stuff ... so I don't.)
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To: Coleus

later read/maybe pingout.


17 posted on 11/12/2005 12:43:00 PM PST by little jeremiah
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To: little jeremiah

ok


18 posted on 10/18/2006 5:20:49 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, geese, algae)
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To: 69ConvertibleFirebird; Alexander Rubin; An American In Dairyland; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; ...
Should interest Catholics and non-Catholics alike. The problem of government spending is critical and my personal POV is that it should be cut by at least 50%, for starters. Many serious problems would wither on the the vine; and good hearted citizens of all religions (and none) would undoubtedly have more time and inclination to help the less fortunate.

This is a good companion article to the one about the government trying to get Amish people enrolled in the food stamp program. They don't accept government largesse; one said the reason is that the consider that they are their brothers' keepers. I'll find a link and post it.

Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee or little jeremiah to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

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[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]

19 posted on 10/18/2006 7:45:23 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: Coleus; All

Here's the companion piece:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1721419/posts?page=1
Counties caught in conundrum: getting Amish to take food stamps

"We believe that we are our brother's keeper," Miller said.


20 posted on 10/18/2006 7:51:23 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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