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Destruction of Catholicism in India
Catholic Church Conservation ^ | 11/01/05 | Gillibrand

Posted on 11/01/2005 7:24:54 PM PST by murphE

I received an e-mail from India from an Indian Catholic of Portuguese Descent from the Portuguese Colony of Goa in India ; name withheld on request. In modern times, the Catholic Church is destroying herself. This has never happened in the course of history.

"My ancestors were evangelized by Catholic Missionaries such as Saint Francis Xavier and good Dominican, Franciscan, and Jesuit Missionaries and I live in India

I have a great devotion to the Divine Mercy, Sacred Heart, The Blessed Sacrament, and Our Lady.

I am shocked and scandalized that there are Indian Priests who are heretics and prepared to engage in large scale Paganism. I visited your web-page where I read the article "Catholic Priests to adopt Hindu Rituals" as well as the Link to the article from NDTV.com.

I have been aware of this for some time and like most Orthodox Indian Catholics I believe that there is nothing we can do except pray as we are a captive audience in our churches and Our Cardinals and Bishops are just not listening to us.

Since,Tuesday over 400 Priests and more than half a dozen bishops have been meeting at the Papal Seminary in Poona-- a City not far from Bombay where I live. They have grandiose plans to paganize the Church by not only incorporating Hindu Rituals but also by violating the sanctity of many of our Catholic Churches with the installation of Hindu Gods and Goddesses near the Blessed Sacrament as well as on the Altar.

Let me really be honest with you. Since, the early 1990's in different parts of India Heretical Priests mainly Jesuits have been celebrating Masses where Readings from the Religious Books of Hindus and Muslims have been taking place as well as other pagan rituals of these two pagan religions.

Not only this, in some parts of India The Tabernacle is in the shape of the intimate organs of a number of different Hindu Gods and Goddesses; This is specially the case in some parts of South India.

This "Evil Inculturation" which they are bent on incorporating seems to have no limits. Why do we need to have these pagan rituals when The Catholic Church is rich with its own symbolism in the Liturgy which has been practiced for Centuries.

There are numerous Priests in India who are hard core heretics and are not ashamed of the consequences that might follow from this act.

I pray that the Holy Father and the Vatican do not give them permission for this. I also pray that the Papal Seminary, Poona is shut down by the Vatican as soon as possible as it has become "Satan's House".

Whatever, these Heretics want to incorporate in Catholic Churches throughout the Length and Breadth of India has been practiced by them for a number of years in the confines of this Seminary and secretly by them in their Churches.

Finally, let me tell you that a number of priests from this Seminary have been excommunicated by Cardinal Ratzinger in the 1990's, But this has not deterred them from pursuing this course of action which is going to be detrimental to the Faith of Thousands of Indian Catholics.

A Number of Priests have been excommunicated in the past most notably a Jesuit Professor by the name of Father Luis Bermejo S.J. who promoted, practiced, and taught all these Pagan Practices. He is a Spanish Jesuit who is a Hard-Core Heretic.

Please pray for the Catholic Church in India as it faces a swelling tide of pagan behaviour at the hands of its own priests.

I believe The Holy Father needs to be apprised of this Issue by Orthodox Catholics from all over the world and realize that he must not give in to these Heretics who call themselves "Priests". Catholic Priests in India for the last 10-15 years have forsaken The Faithful of Christ by promoting Pagan Religions.

Let me end this email by saying that there are a large number of Priests in India specially Jesuits, Salesians, Redemptorists, and even some Diocesan Priests who have been reciting verses from the "Bhagvadgita"-- the Religious Book of Hindus in Catholic Churches and substituting those verses for the first and second reading in the Mass for a number of years or at least two decades in a number of Cities and Towns.

They have even started over the last 15 years, reciting verses from the "Koran" in the Mass in Churches in different parts of India or getting Moslems from Islamic Religious Schools or Imams from Mosques to do the same.

They now plan to extend this Pagan Behavior to all Catholic Churches in India and add some more pagan rituals. Let me also tell you that for the last 10-15 years, as a result of this pagan behavior by priests large numbers of Indian Catholics in Cities like Bombay, Bangalore, and places like Goa, Kerala, etc have left the Catholic Church for "U.S. based Pentecostal Churches" like The Assembly of God, or the Seventh-Day Adventists or any Pentecostal Church you can think of. They are mushrooming in many places in India.

Between 70,000- 1,50,000 Catholics have left the Catholic Church in Bombay in the last 15 years. What is worse, the Clergy is just not interested in bringing them back. "


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholiclist; christianpersecution; crisis; heresy; india; indianchristians; scandal
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To: murphE

I thought the Jesuits were supposed to be the guardians of Catholic doctrine ... have they gone to the dark side?


41 posted on 12/15/2005 10:09:14 PM PST by Schwaeky (Islam is a religion of Peace just like Nazism is an Ideology of tolerance.)
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To: Dick Vomer

what is with the Jesuits?
.... end times?
>>>

No, queers.


42 posted on 12/16/2005 2:23:06 AM PST by Appalled but Not Surprised
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To: Schwaeky

Many times... that is why they keep getting suppressed.

Away with the entire batch. Put them under Opus Dei.


43 posted on 12/16/2005 2:23:42 AM PST by Appalled but Not Surprised
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To: Schwaeky
I thought the Jesuits were supposed to be the guardians of Catholic doctrine ... have they gone to the dark side?

Sadly, yes the order is polluted with modernist, Marxist apostates. This book gives a good explanation.


44 posted on 12/16/2005 6:43:39 AM PST by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: NYer; BearWash; murphE; Salvation

Dear All,

Here is some more interesting information on my village church in Goa, India. I was trying to post an Image of my village Church but could not.


ALDONA

ALDONA VILLAGE - BARDEZ - GOA
SAINT THOMAS CHURCH
Fourth Centenary Celebrations

In the December 1995 issue of Youth and You, part of Voice of St. Thomas, the parish newsletter, editor , Melvyn Misquita warned that preparations for the grand arrival must be balanced with an awareness of the spiritual significance of the event. He wr ites : " That an external glitter, gaiety and splendour is always associated with such an event is beyond doubt, but welcoming the spiritual arrival of the fourth centenary celebrations is and must be accepted as central. Then only will our joy of bei ng privileged to participate in this arrival seem meaningful. This I believe, along with our ancestors, constituted the main reason to welcome and embrace the arrival of Christianity four hundred years ago."
Church History and Legends.

The Church of St. Thomas remains an awe inspiring presence in the village of Aldona ( est pop. 7000) It was built in 1596 on a high plateau on the banks of the Mapu sa River. A flight of broad steps cut into a cliff and lead to an open plain that surrounds the grand white building.

Inside, the Church is ornately decorated by symbolic biblical murals and grand statues.

The treasures of the church are the subject of a village legend.
At one time, the statues of the church were strung with jewellery by villagers as thanks for prayers answered. but Church were often robbed for these jewels.

One night, a band of thieves crossed the river into Aldona to rob the Church. At the base of the hill, a young boy appeared to the group's leader and cautioned him not to proceed. The thiev es ignored the boy and entered the Church. As they forced open a chest of valuables, the church bells began to ring. Some of the thieves drowned in the river trying to escape. The leader and some others were captured. When the leader was taken past the m ain altar, he identified the statue of St. Thomas as the boy he had seen earlier --- who warned him not to rob the Church.

Upkeep of the Church.

Please send your donations to:
Fr. Jose Roque Gonsalves
St. Thomas Church
Aldona, Bardez
Goa, INDIA 403508
Ph: (0832) 293352


Aldona Village - Facts and Figures (Under construction)

Acknowledgements:

Fr. Jose Roque Gonsalves.
Edwin De Souza, edesouza@wpo.borland.com,Internet
Marlon Menezes
Luis Ferrao
Ida D'Souza.
Patricia D'Souza


Please check out, www.archgoadaman.org and http://www.blessedjosephvaz.com/ for additional details.

Blessed Joseph Vaz was a Holy Goan Priest who evangelized Sri Lanka also known as Ceylon in the 17th Century when it was ruled by the Dutch Calvinists. His Canonization Process is ongoing.

In Jesus and Mary,

P.S.- To Salvation-- I am a big fan of Father Robert Altier's Homilies which i have been reading for te last 4-5 years. He has some awesome homilies on the Blessed Sacrament, Our Lady, the Spiritual Life, and the Saints. I truly wish there were more priests like him in the United States as well as in other countries.


45 posted on 12/16/2005 11:44:56 AM PST by MILESJESU
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To: NYer

Dear NYer,


Sorry for this posting but I wanted to respond to one of your queries so here goes. You asked and I quote "Other than posting information to a blog, what actions are being taken locally to address these happenings in India? Is there an organized group to monitor and report the activities to Rome?


Virtually nothing is being done to address this paganism in India as Orthodox Catholics are a negligible minority in the Catholic Community and more so in the Archdiocese of Bombay. There are no apologetic or orthodox catholic groups in Bombay, India like there are in the United States or in Europe like Opus Dei, E.W.T.N., Scott Hahn, Dave Armstrong Etc.

Additionally, there are virtually no Orthodox Catholic Religious Orders in Bombay or in any part of India which can take up all these issues as Inculturation, and Paganism is the order of the day in all religious orders and specially this stupid "Inter-Religious Dialogue" with Hindus and Moslems which is getting the Catholic Church no where at all.

I have found in India that only members of India's Tribal Groups in North India, Central India, Eastern India and North-West India are open to the Gospel and to the message of Jesus Christ.

Having discerned a vocation at the age of 18 and later at 21 with the Discalced Carmelite Friars in Goa and with the Redemptorists in Bombay, I can clearly say that most Religious Orders in India do not provide a spiritual home for an "Orthodox Catholic Man" who wishes to serve the Lord in religious life.

I know a catholic man from Bombay who is now serving as a priest in Rome, he was initially at the Diocesan Seminary on the outskirts of Bombay called "Saint Pius College" Goregaon but he found that the Seminary Professors were quite liberal and teaching a lot of pagan and non- christian spirituality and so he left and was accepted at a seminary on the outskirts of rome where he is quite happy now as a priest.

Finally, I am quite happy to know that you were accepted at a Maronite Catholic Church. I have a keen interest in the Maronite Catholic Church and its History and Liturgy as well as my parents have visited Lebanon and Beirut many many years ago and the Maronites as a community have always fascinated me.


In Jesus and Mary,

P.S.- By the way, a number of folks in Bombay (liberal and orthodox) think i am luny because they cannot understand why a catholic guy in his 30's should be interested in what is happening to the Church here. Most Catholics in Bombay I have found are quite indifferent to this nonsense which is unfolding in the Church.

They have this attitude that if the Priests are for it and do not have a problem with it why should I care? Many feel I should have a girlfriend, get married as well as get on with life, have a family, and get out of the country as I must say this quite frankly that Bombay and India is no place for a young catholic man or woman in their 20's or 30's -- there is literally nothing for them here.

Not even Older Catholic Folks are remotely interested in what is happening to the Church and the direction it is taking in the 21st Century. I guess only your prayers and those at the Forum will be of any use. Most Catholic Folks think it is useless going against the Ecclesiastical Hierarchy as they never listen to us.

That is precisely why a large number of members of my community(Goan Indian Catholics) have been immigrating in significant numbers to the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand as we face tremendous discrmination in jobs and education.



46 posted on 12/16/2005 12:14:42 PM PST by MILESJESU
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To: SOLDIEROFJESUSCHRIST; BearWash; murphE; Salvation

SAINT THOMAS CHURCH
47 posted on 12/16/2005 1:24:50 PM PST by NYer ("Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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To: SOLDIEROFJESUSCHRIST
Thank you for the response to my original questions. They are similar to the ones we find here and in other parts of the world. You are NOT alone :-)!

They have this attitude that if the Priests are for it and do not have a problem with it why should I care?

Yes ... after conquering one liturgical abuse at my former parish, I tried to muster some support from other parishioners. To do so entailed 'educating' them in the General Instructions of the Roman Missal (GIRM). Their response? "Who cares? We like things the way they are." Since the Mass they attended was not in compliance with the GIRM, then they were not receiving the full graces. You will find this link to be informative and helpful in your struggle.

Is Your Mass Valid? Liturgical Abuse .

I have a keen interest in the Maronite Catholic Church and its History and Liturgy as well as my parents have visited Lebanon and Beirut many many years ago and the Maronites as a community have always fascinated me.

The Maronite Church is the second largest Eastern Catholic Church, followed by the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church of India. I am neither Lebanese, nor Maronite but found their liturgy to be filled with great reverence.

Have you ever attended any of their services? Here are some pictures from a service at St. Thomas Syro Malabar Church in Bronx, NY.


48 posted on 12/16/2005 1:44:56 PM PST by NYer ("Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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To: murphE
This book gives a good explanation.
The Jesuits, by Malachi Martin


49 posted on 12/16/2005 9:37:24 PM PST by vox_freedom (Fear no evil)
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To: NYer; Salvation; BearWash; murphE

Dear NYer and All,

I have read your message. I have never attended a "Syro - Malabar Liturgy" as I believe i have deep roots in my Catholic Christian Latin Rite Church and I love it there. Besides, In Bombay Syro Malabar parishes are few and far between and are extremely far from where I live.

I am posting some web links here for y'all's perusal. I love that word y'all having lived for 4 years in Georgia. I truly miss Georgia and Atlanta specially Onion Rings from "The Varsity" a great eating joint near downtown Atlanta.

Anyway, I won't digress anymore. These Links relate to the ongoing persecution of India's Catholics and Christians bu Radical Hindu Groups. They are quite recent.

Besides, there is an excellent resource on the web concerning persecution of India's Christians and the Coptic Christians of Egypt. It is www.persecution.org.

The links that relate to India are as follows-


1)http://www.persecution.org/newsite/newsdetail.php?newscode=1781 A Year of Violence against Catholics.


2)http://www.persecution.org/newsite/newsdetail.php?newscode=1778 Indian State introduces controversial Anti-Conversion Law.

3)http://www.persecution.org/newsite/countryinfodetail.php?countrycode=3 Updated Articles concerning Persecution of India’s Christians Both Catholic as well as Protestant.

In Jesus and Mary,

P.S.- My Family was a pioneer in the early 1990's and mid 1990's with regard to the promotion of the Devotion to the Divine Mercy in the Archdiocese of Bombay.

Unfortunately, we faced a lot of hostility and a negative atttitude from a large number of priests and religious who were not keen on supporting my family in this wonderful apostolate.

We have continued to promote it to virtually most parts of India as well as some countries in the Persian Gulf, Canada and Australia too. We used to receive tons of literature on the Divine Mercy Devotion from a Lay Catholic Evangelist of Chinese Descent who used to live in Hong Kong.

My family also played a significant role in helping a saintly discalced carmelite friar now deceased in setting up a Shrine to the Divine Mercy in Goa.




50 posted on 12/17/2005 11:15:22 AM PST by MILESJESU
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To: SOLDIEROFJESUSCHRIST
Thank-you for providing this information.
51 posted on 12/17/2005 6:01:46 PM PST by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Salvation

Dear Salvation,

Thanks for your response. I really felt that I should make people aware about what is going on in the Catholic Church in India as a lot of concerned and orthodox catholics are not aware about what is going on.

While, living in the United States I felt called to a vocation to religious life apart from discerning a vocation at a Trappist Monastery near Atlanta -- I visited a Brigittine Monastery near Salem, Oregon unfortunately things did not work out there. I visited the West Coast a couple of times with friends and by myself.

I guess i will wait till the 24th of December Christmas Eve to wish you. I am a big fan of Father Altier's Homilies which I believe are out of this world. Another Priest who has fantastic homilies is Father James Farfaglia of the Diocese of Corpus Christi. His Web Page can be accessed at http://www.goccn.org/diocese/spcl/reflect.asp

In Jesus and Mary,

P.S.- If everer you wish to read the Divine Mercy Diary online there is a web page run by two dedicated and orthodox catholic women at http://our.homewithgod.com/divinemercy/

http://www.my.homewithgod.com/gertrude/ At this Link, is available the Life and revelations of Saint Gertrude the Great which is not yet complete.


52 posted on 12/17/2005 7:36:40 PM PST by MILESJESU
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To: murphE; nickcarraway; sandyeggo; Siobhan; Lady In Blue; NYer; american colleen; Pyro7480; livius; ..

Dear All,

I may not have introduced myself to all of y'all. For those of y'all who do not know me y'all can take a look at my profile. It will suffuce to say at this time that I was the person reponsible for sending that email to Chris Gillibrand of Catholic Church Conservation as I found and it is still true that nothing is being done by the Catholic Bishops of India to rectify this matter.

More, Importantly We Catholics in india face intense persecution from Right Wing Hindu Groups as I write this to you. For those of y'all who are interested in knowing more about Paganism in the Catholic Church in India.

Please read the following book written by a Catholic from South India by the name of Victor Kulanday. It is very enlightening. The name of the Book is the "Paganization of the Catholic Church in India". It was published for a number of years from Madras now called Chennai.

The Unfortunate thing about this Book is that it is practically unavailable in India for the simple reason that this writer "Victor and his wife Daisy Kulanday" who was responsible for establishing in 1975 the "All India Catholic Laity Congress" which used to regularly take up issues against the Bishops regarding Theological Errors they were promoting in the Catholic Faith and report them to Rome was not a popular person with the Catholic Bishops of India and after his death in 1989 they sought to ban his book and probably all works by him.

Therefore this Book is not available in any Catholic Book-Store in India in nay city or town. It should be available in most parts of the United States if it is not available in a good catholic book-store it will definitely be available with Barnes and Noble, Double-Day, or with Amazon.com online.

In Jesus and Mary,

For the Attention of NYER, Victor's wife Daisy passed away in 1993 and since then the "All India Catholic Laity Congress" has been defunct and has been practically been shutdown.

Therefore, at my age I see myself as a "Voice in the Wilderness" with regard to this issue. Please remember y'all that Paganism in the Catholic Church in India has been an ongoing feature since 1975; however I was only 4 then. This is what I have got to know from Friends and Relatives as well as from my own family.


53 posted on 12/18/2005 8:35:31 PM PST by MILESJESU
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To: murphE; nickcarraway; sandyeggo; Siobhan; Lady In Blue; NYer; american colleen; Pyro7480; livius; ..

Dear All,

A Small Correction. The Book is called " The Paganization of the Church in India" by Victor J.F. Kulanday. It seems that this book is out of print and has limited availability through both BarnesandNoble.com as well as Amazon.com.

In Jesus and Mary,


54 posted on 12/18/2005 10:52:23 PM PST by MILESJESU
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To: Salvation

sure, thanks for your kindness
god bless us all


55 posted on 12/21/2005 8:05:47 AM PST by voice of india
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To: NYer

Sir
There are 2 sections of catholics in india.one is the latin catholics which i believe is the majority and the syro-malabar catholics.
The syro-malbar catholics follow the syrian rites whereas the latin catholics follow the latin rites.The syro-malabar catholics are called as syrian catholics here.There are not more than 5 million syrian catholics almost all of them is concentrated in the state of Kerala in southern india.Syrian catholics are conservative and traditional.Many of them (i would use the word us) were converted by st Thomas and the rest were converted by monks of syrian descent.AND BELIEVE IT OR NOT OUR CHURCHES HAVE GOT 99 PERCENT ATTENDENCE.


56 posted on 12/21/2005 8:44:40 AM PST by voice of india (SURIANI CATHOLIKKAN)
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To: murphE; nickcarraway; sandyeggo; Siobhan; Lady In Blue; NYer; BearWash; voice of india; ...
Dear All,

I do not have good news for you today. In Yesterday's Edition of "The Times of India" there was an article written by a Catholic Correspondent stating that the Catholic Bishop's Conference of India have given the Green Light for this "Paganism" which they prefer to call "Inculturation" to be incorporated into the Liturgy and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass as soon as possible -- It could happen at Mass on Christmas Day or perhaps in the New Year but they are hell bent on doing it.

It seems that there is nothing that can stop them now. I even quote two auxiliary bishops from the Archdiocese of Mumbai(Bombay) Bishops Percival Fernandes and Thomas Dabre in this article who say that not one of the Bishops in India are against it and according to him if we can have hindu rituals in the Mass in South India and in Ranchi (Eastern India) for several years if not decades then why not in Bombay, Goa, and other places?

I would like to remind my good friend "Voice of India" that yes, sure many Catholics from South India are conservative and traditional but certainly not the Leaders of the Church. I have information that the Head of the Syro- Malabar Church performed a Hindu Ritual in the presence of the Papal Pronuncio at the Papal Seminary in Pune in 2002; besides this Cardinal Lourduswamy and Father Amaloporvadass S.J. a Heretic Jesuit have been performing Hindu rituals in the Mass for years specially since the early 1980's.

There are Churches and Chapels in Bangalore, Pune, and in many towns and cities of South India where Images of Hindu Gods and Goddesses have adorned the walls for years.

Let me end this message by saying, that for years no one has stopped these "Hard Core Heretics" from doing what they have been doing. Now, we have more pagans and heretics in Mumbai(Bombay) like Father (Doctor) Francis Barboza and Father Charles Vas who engage in shameless "Pagan Liturgical Dances" before the altar.

For crying out loud why doesn't anyone stop them. I for one have made a decision that I will walk out of a Mass even on Christmas Day if I find these Pagan Rituals in the Mass-- next who knows what it will be "Satanic Rituals"

If this continues, I will just stay at home and watch the "Holy Sacrifice of the Mass" on E.W.T.N. which is said with respect and is truly solemn.

What is worse, is that Cardinal Ivan Dias-- the Archbishop of Bombay has given his seal of approval to all these pagan rituals and in fact believes that by having these pagan rituals in the Mass the Catholic Church can attract Hindus to join the Catholic Church in different parts of India.

Such foolishness I have never come across in my life. I just have one basic argument for all these "Priests, Bishops, and Religious" who are for all this crap -- Is Christ being Preached in any Hindu Temple, Mosque, or Sikh Temple ?

You will never hear a Mullah, a Hindu Priest, or a Sikh Priest preach about Christ and the Teachings of the Catholic Church in their respective places of worship?

Why then are we bending over backwards and engaging in the appeasement of these "Pagan Religions". Why can't we remain faithful to Christ and his teachings?

Sometimes, i wonder if this gets too bad whether I should seriously consider becoming a "Baptist or a Pentecostal" at least I will hear about Christ and his teachings more often.

Your Comments and Prayers are invited.

In Jesus and Mary,
57 posted on 12/21/2005 10:47:14 AM PST by MILESJESU
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To: voice of india
Many of them (i would use the word us) were converted by st Thomas and the rest were converted by monks of syrian descent. AND BELIEVE IT OR NOT OUR CHURCHES HAVE GOT 99 PERCENT ATTENDENCE.

So, are you a member of the Syro Malabar Church?

58 posted on 12/21/2005 11:59:48 AM PST by NYer ("Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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To: SOLDIEROFJESUSCHRIST
For crying out loud why doesn't anyone stop them.

Write to:

Cardinal Francis Arinze
Prefect - Congregation for Divine Worship
Piazza Pio XII, 10
Vatican City (Europe) 00120

BTW - I maintain a Catholic Ping List in the forum. Freepmail me if you would like to be added to the list.

59 posted on 12/21/2005 12:09:15 PM PST by NYer ("Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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To: NYer; Salvation; BearWash; murphE

Dear All,

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all of you. I felt that I should post these 3 articles that I will be posting at the end of this message relating to the nonsense that is currently going on in the Catholic Church in India.

All 3 of them were written by an Indian Christian who I repeat is not Catholic but is from Eastern India and a Bengali Christian. What he has to say is more than an eyeopener on this issue and he seems more Catholic on his views than any Indian Catholic I know in Bombay or in any other place in India.

The Website is www.inchristiantoday.com. It is run by a coalition of Non-Denominational Churches who seem surprisngly friendly to the Catholic Church and are frankly very concerned with the crap that some Indian Catholic Priests are currently engaged in.

Your Comments as usual are invited.

In Jesus and Mary,




Indianisation of Christianity: Whom are we fooling? (Part 1 of 3 Part Series)
Posted on: Dec 07, 2005 08:12:27 AM


If the Pune Papal Seminary has its own way, we will witness similar form of worship in most of the Catholic churches. (In picture: A Hindu priest offering worship in a temple in Cincinnati, USA)









Recently, a news piqued my curiosity. In Himachal Pradesh, one pastor was beaten up and was threatened with death unless he and other believers participated in a ‘reconversion’ ceremony in which verses from the Bhagavata Gita will be chanted. It was very saddening.


Did these people actually think that Christians could be ‘reconverted’ if they participated in some recital session? Perhaps so. In that case, these fundamentalist outfits should be pleased to hear that the Catholic Church is making serious efforts to incorporate Hindu practices like performing aarti (ritual practiced by Hindus in which light from wicks soaked in ghee or camphor is offered to one or more deities.


The word may also refer to the traditional Hindu devotional song that is sung in the ritual of the same name) during mass, studying Sanskrit and the Vedas (the oldest and most authoritative Hindu sacred texts, composed in Sanskrit and gathered into four collections) and experiencing Ashram (monastic) life. Why? To give themselves “a feel of being an Indian.”

This is particularly interesting because in his recent, albeit controversial, visit to Punjab, RSS supremo, KS Sudarshan criticized the Church, saying that it should change its mindset and “feel Indian and act as Indian.” I wonder whether the Catholic Church is playing into the hands of the RSS?

With all due respect, I am a Christian, a “born again” as some would call me. I am also an Indian and feel Indian and act as Indian. And, for this, I do not need the RSS’s nod of approval or acceptance. However, it does not mean that to be an Indian, I must learn to recite Bhagvad Gita or study the Vedas or offer aarti. What next? Do we sing Saraswati Vandana in Christian schools? Do we put on saffron robes and tonsure our heads when we conduct sermons from the pulpits? How about worshipping cows, rodents or simians on Christmas Day or Easter?

Of course, one is tempted to argue that since Hindus constitute the majority community, their religious idiom ought to provide the binding cultural cement for a diversified people.


One may also argue that since Hindus are uniquely tolerant, the minorities have nothing to fear from a takeover of public spaces and official occasions by Hindu rituals, nor should they feel insecure if the nation is designated as Hindu. Of course, Saraswati Vandanas and Vedas are, in any case, beautiful and profound, and it is very convenient to say that all “pseudo-secularists” who object to their use by the state are “anti- Hindu.”

It is, however, obvious that religious texts lose their “innocence” when they are used for coercive and discriminatory purposes. Since it is the Sangh Parivar (including the RSS) which proposes to Indianise not only our Constitution, but also Christianity and Islam, it is irrelevant to refer only to the original, literal meaning of the texts and the hymns, and not to the inclination and activities of the people who will enforce and shape their use. Whether Hindus are tolerant or not is not the point here. After all, no one can deny the Sangh Parivar's record of violent intolerance.

What is at issue here is not Indianisation of Christianity but secularism, democracy and
citizenship rights. In a multicultural democracy, the state and its associated offices and occasions have to be scrupulously non- denominational, not identified with any particular community to the exclusion of others.


For, if the state affirms its affiliation to a particular denomination, the citizens belonging to other faiths or to no faith, would be relegated to a secondary status, and located at a greater distance from the state, upon which their claims would become correspondingly weaker. Again, in a democracy, tolerance cannot be a substitute for equal citizenship status. Tolerance implies a relationship of power, where some tolerate others who are dependent, on sufferance. In a democracy, on the other hand, citizenship is a matter of right, irrespective of what section the citizen belongs to.

If the nation, in its eagerness to “Indianise” everyone, designates itself as Hindu and the state acknowledges it in its official sphere, then non-Hindus will at best be tolerated as minorities, not as equal citizens.

(To be continued)






Surojit Chatterjee
surojit@christiantoday.co.in



Indianisation of Christianity: Whom are we fooling? (Part 2 of 3 Part Series)
Posted on: Dec 08, 2005 10:30:26 AM


Mr. Sudarshan, what is your gameplan?

Prayer is the only answer in our fight against the communal forces.









Mr. Sudarshan, what is your gameplan? For decades now, the RSS has been imparting an education that confuses perceptions of the real and the contrived. It has taught that patriotism is vengeance, that the nation is Hindu, that struggles for human rights and equality and social justice are alien to our culture, they are divisive and they are the fruits of Macaulay's poison tree. In the BJP-run States, school textbooks have sections glorifying the Pokhran tests. The RSS has insisted that we only look for knowledge that is home-grown, however offensive or exploitative that might be to Dalits, to women, to democracy.

As important as what it teaches is what it silences and renders non-issue. It suppresses knowledge about what lies behind Indian poverty, it displaces discussions on what is welfare and social justice and how to attain them. Fortunately, the present government, that boasts of its secular roots, has woken up to the dangers posed by “saffronisation” of education by the previous Hindu nationalist government and is now working overtime to detoxify the educational system.

As for the authenticity of Pune Papal Seminary that had mooted the idea of “Indianisation” of Christianity by indoctrinating Hindu religious practices, I have my reservations. Have they gone insane by trying to “Indianise” themselves and attempting to become less dependant on the Vatican authority? What are the seminary priests and bishops up to? Are they trying to appease Hindu sentiments or more specifically the sentiments of Hindu right-wing ideologists? Incidentally, the “pure” intentions of the seminary has not gone down well with Hindus (and here I am speaking of moderate Hindus). Many feel that Church is using public sentiment and customs, changing its way of functioning just to appease more people to “convert” to Christianity. Why else would the church go to an extent where it loses its own authenticity and identity? Would its identity be left only with praying in churches and baptizing people? What about Christian traditions and customs? Are they lost forever in India?

Let us get one thing clear at the outset. “Indianisation” and “Brahminical Hinduisation” or “Brahminisation” of Christianity are entirely separate and distinct concepts.

According to Fr. Tony Charangat, editor, The Examiner, the proposal of the seminary is not a call for performing Hindu puja (worship) during Mass. “We’re only for the use of rituals, myth and culture as the best means of communicating the message of Christianity in the Indian context,” he told the national daily, The Statesman. He added that this process of inculturation was important because through it “we will be able to understand our own experience and our own culture better.”

Who are we fooling? Have we become so blind that we cannot see how the concept of the true meaning of Indianisation has become diluted over the ages in the context of the social milieu?

Till Independence, practices of Indian Christianity were decidedly western. However, post-Independence, particularly during the epochal Vatican Council II (1962-65), Rome shed its triumphal bearing and embraced ecumenism, inter-faith dialogue, inculturation and religious liberty.

This allowed the use of local languages (in place of Latin) and customs in Church services all over the world. It also gave a licence for a creative and radical reinterpretation of the Gospels, which in turn was responsible for the genesis of liberation theology in Latin America.

And, these days, “Indianisation” of the Church run so deep that some new-age churches are modeled after popular temples. Are we trying to confuse or tempt our Hindu brothers and sister into stepping into our churches?

“Indian rite mass” (conceived by Cardinal Parecattil of the Syro-Malabar Church and the Jesuit Dr. Amalorpavadas of the Latin Church, “masterminds” behind the inculturation movement in India) incorporates (Brahminical) Hindu rituals such as the chanting of Vedic and Upanishadic mantras.

Prayers begin with “OM”, readings are taken from the Hindu scriptures such as the Bhagvad Gita, tilak is applied to foreheads of the clergy and the laity, priests wear a saffron shawl instead of a cassock and sit on the ground at a table surrounded by small lamps rather than stand at the traditional altar.

In addition, Indian music is played at Church services, the entrance procession for the Mass has girls dancing the Bharatnatyam, kirtans and bhajans are sung at Communion. Priests and nuns are encouraged to adopt Indian religious values and customs in their religious practices and participate actively in Hindu festivals such as Ganesh-visarjan (immersion) and Raas Lila.

Many priests and nuns have anyway renounced their Western names and taken on Indian ones and many Church institutions now bear Indian names such as Jnana-Deepa Vidyapeeth, Pune (Pontifical Institute of Philosophy and Religion), Sadhana meditation centre, Lonavla, Satchitananda Ashram, Trichy and so on. Priests and nuns are besides encouraged to live in ashrams and experience divinity through the practice of disciplines such as yoga, vipasana, transcendental meditation, reiki, pranic healing, blah, blah and blah.

Of course, diehard conservatives in the clergy have been appalled by the changes and one searing critic has described this process as a “scandalous ecumenism with Hinduism.”

Such attempts have also not gone down well with all sections of the laity. “The leadership wants to inculturate and have been contextualising theology to suit the Indian milieu but lay people are not willing to change,” Fr. Allwyn D’Silva, director, Documentation, Research & Training Centre at the St Pius College, Mumbai, said.

He felt this was the “main block” faced by the Church in several regions, especially in a city like Mumbai where the population is cosmopolitan.

But this is not the only problem. Another stumbling block is the question of what is Indian and whether Brahminical Hinduisation should be the dominant theological and liturgical trend in the Church.

There has, in fact, been stiff opposition to the advance of “Hinduisation” from radical Dalit theologians such as the late Rev. Arvind Nirmal, the Rev. M. Azariah and the Rev. James Massey, who have accused the high caste-dominated Church leadership of “Brahminising” Christianity in the name of “Indianising” the church.

“The current or traditional Indian Christian theology, which is based upon the Brahmanic traditions of Hindu religions did not/does not address itself to or reflect the issues which the majority of Christians faced either before or after they became Christians. It is because this expression of theology is based upon the religious traditions of the minority even among the Hindus, because Brahmins (priestly caste) represent only about 5 percent of the total population of India,” Rev. Massey has argued.

It appears that the Catholic Bishops Conference of India (CBCI) are now at crossroads. Do they accept “Brahminical Hinduisation” in the name of “Indianisation”? Or do they stick to their roots, their liturgy and traditions? Perhaps they will take the safer road – leaving the issue unresolved to regional bishops to decide what is appropriate “Indianisation.”

This brings to my mind a Supreme Court decision wherein the judiciary interpreted the meaning of 'Hindutva' and 'Hinduism' as a "synonym of “Indianisation” i.e. development of uniform culture by obliterating the differences between all all cultures co-existing in the country." However, with all due respect to India’s highest judiciary, I beg to differ. What are we trying to achieve here? Indianisation of various faith and beliefs or Hinduisation of India?

Again, many will cry foul and will say that since Hindus constitute the majority community, their religious idiom ought to provide the uniformity and unity for a diversified people. Of course it is true that Hindus constitute the majority of the population and their views cannot be ignored.

But, at the same time, to ignore the minority communities and say that 20 per cent of the population does not form part of the national mainstream, particularly when they have been integral to the national life for a long time, will be paradoxical. They are part of the military, bureaucracy, business, and generally every aspect of Indian society. And their achievements in the service of the nation are also commendable. To isolate them and to tell them to “Indianise” is an insult to the nation.

Moreover, the assumption that India is a Hindu nation is historically invalid and politically false. For 2,000 years, various religions and caste groups have been part of the social fabric of India. Only a blind fanatic can overlook the contribution of the minorities to the national life - political, social and cultural.

(To be concluded on Friday, December 9)







Surojit Chatterjee
surojit@christiantoday.co.in




Indianisation of Christianity: Whom are we fooling? (Part 2 of 3 Part Series)
Posted on: Dec 08, 2005 10:30:26 AM


Mr. Sudarshan, what is your gameplan?

Prayer is the only answer in our fight against the communal forces.









Mr. Sudarshan, what is your gameplan? For decades now, the RSS has been imparting an education that confuses perceptions of the real and the contrived. It has taught that patriotism is vengeance, that the nation is Hindu, that struggles for human rights and equality and social justice are alien to our culture, they are divisive and they are the fruits of Macaulay's poison tree. In the BJP-run States, school textbooks have sections glorifying the Pokhran tests. The RSS has insisted that we only look for knowledge that is home-grown, however offensive or exploitative that might be to Dalits, to women, to democracy.

As important as what it teaches is what it silences and renders non-issue. It suppresses knowledge about what lies behind Indian poverty, it displaces discussions on what is welfare and social justice and how to attain them. Fortunately, the present government, that boasts of its secular roots, has woken up to the dangers posed by “saffronisation” of education by the previous Hindu nationalist government and is now working overtime to detoxify the educational system.

As for the authenticity of Pune Papal Seminary that had mooted the idea of “Indianisation” of Christianity by indoctrinating Hindu religious practices, I have my reservations. Have they gone insane by trying to “Indianise” themselves and attempting to become less dependant on the Vatican authority? What are the seminary priests and bishops up to? Are they trying to appease Hindu sentiments or more specifically the sentiments of Hindu right-wing ideologists? Incidentally, the “pure” intentions of the seminary has not gone down well with Hindus (and here I am speaking of moderate Hindus). Many feel that Church is using public sentiment and customs, changing its way of functioning just to appease more people to “convert” to Christianity. Why else would the church go to an extent where it loses its own authenticity and identity? Would its identity be left only with praying in churches and baptizing people? What about Christian traditions and customs? Are they lost forever in India?

Let us get one thing clear at the outset. “Indianisation” and “Brahminical Hinduisation” or “Brahminisation” of Christianity are entirely separate and distinct concepts.

According to Fr. Tony Charangat, editor, The Examiner, the proposal of the seminary is not a call for performing Hindu puja (worship) during Mass. “We’re only for the use of rituals, myth and culture as the best means of communicating the message of Christianity in the Indian context,” he told the national daily, The Statesman. He added that this process of inculturation was important because through it “we will be able to understand our own experience and our own culture better.”

Who are we fooling? Have we become so blind that we cannot see how the concept of the true meaning of Indianisation has become diluted over the ages in the context of the social milieu?

Till Independence, practices of Indian Christianity were decidedly western. However, post-Independence, particularly during the epochal Vatican Council II (1962-65), Rome shed its triumphal bearing and embraced ecumenism, inter-faith dialogue, inculturation and religious liberty.

This allowed the use of local languages (in place of Latin) and customs in Church services all over the world. It also gave a licence for a creative and radical reinterpretation of the Gospels, which in turn was responsible for the genesis of liberation theology in Latin America.

And, these days, “Indianisation” of the Church run so deep that some new-age churches are modeled after popular temples. Are we trying to confuse or tempt our Hindu brothers and sister into stepping into our churches?

“Indian rite mass” (conceived by Cardinal Parecattil of the Syro-Malabar Church and the Jesuit Dr. Amalorpavadas of the Latin Church, “masterminds” behind the inculturation movement in India) incorporates (Brahminical) Hindu rituals such as the chanting of Vedic and Upanishadic mantras.

Prayers begin with “OM”, readings are taken from the Hindu scriptures such as the Bhagvad Gita, tilak is applied to foreheads of the clergy and the laity, priests wear a saffron shawl instead of a cassock and sit on the ground at a table surrounded by small lamps rather than stand at the traditional altar.

In addition, Indian music is played at Church services, the entrance procession for the Mass has girls dancing the Bharatnatyam, kirtans and bhajans are sung at Communion. Priests and nuns are encouraged to adopt Indian religious values and customs in their religious practices and participate actively in Hindu festivals such as Ganesh-visarjan (immersion) and Raas Lila.

Many priests and nuns have anyway renounced their Western names and taken on Indian ones and many Church institutions now bear Indian names such as Jnana-Deepa Vidyapeeth, Pune (Pontifical Institute of Philosophy and Religion), Sadhana meditation centre, Lonavla, Satchitananda Ashram, Trichy and so on. Priests and nuns are besides encouraged to live in ashrams and experience divinity through the practice of disciplines such as yoga, vipasana, transcendental meditation, reiki, pranic healing, blah, blah and blah.

Of course, diehard conservatives in the clergy have been appalled by the changes and one searing critic has described this process as a “scandalous ecumenism with Hinduism.”

Such attempts have also not gone down well with all sections of the laity. “The leadership wants to inculturate and have been contextualising theology to suit the Indian milieu but lay people are not willing to change,” Fr. Allwyn D’Silva, director, Documentation, Research & Training Centre at the St Pius College, Mumbai, said.

He felt this was the “main block” faced by the Church in several regions, especially in a city like Mumbai where the population is cosmopolitan.

But this is not the only problem. Another stumbling block is the question of what is Indian and whether Brahminical Hinduisation should be the dominant theological and liturgical trend in the Church.

There has, in fact, been stiff opposition to the advance of “Hinduisation” from radical Dalit theologians such as the late Rev. Arvind Nirmal, the Rev. M. Azariah and the Rev. James Massey, who have accused the high caste-dominated Church leadership of “Brahminising” Christianity in the name of “Indianising” the church.

“The current or traditional Indian Christian theology, which is based upon the Brahmanic traditions of Hindu religions did not/does not address itself to or reflect the issues which the majority of Christians faced either before or after they became Christians. It is because this expression of theology is based upon the religious traditions of the minority even among the Hindus, because Brahmins (priestly caste) represent only about 5 percent of the total population of India,” Rev. Massey has argued.

It appears that the Catholic Bishops Conference of India (CBCI) are now at crossroads. Do they accept “Brahminical Hinduisation” in the name of “Indianisation”? Or do they stick to their roots, their liturgy and traditions? Perhaps they will take the safer road – leaving the issue unresolved to regional bishops to decide what is appropriate “Indianisation.”

This brings to my mind a Supreme Court decision wherein the judiciary interpreted the meaning of 'Hindutva' and 'Hinduism' as a "synonym of “Indianisation” i.e. development of uniform culture by obliterating the differences between all all cultures co-existing in the country." However, with all due respect to India’s highest judiciary, I beg to differ. What are we trying to achieve here? Indianisation of various faith and beliefs or Hinduisation of India?

Again, many will cry foul and will say that since Hindus constitute the majority community, their religious idiom ought to provide the uniformity and unity for a diversified people. Of course it is true that Hindus constitute the majority of the population and their views cannot be ignored.

But, at the same time, to ignore the minority communities and say that 20 per cent of the population does not form part of the national mainstream, particularly when they have been integral to the national life for a long time, will be paradoxical. They are part of the military, bureaucracy, business, and generally every aspect of Indian society. And their achievements in the service of the nation are also commendable. To isolate them and to tell them to “Indianise” is an insult to the nation.

Moreover, the assumption that India is a Hindu nation is historically invalid and politically false. For 2,000 years, various religions and caste groups have been part of the social fabric of India. Only a blind fanatic can overlook the contribution of the minorities to the national life - political, social and cultural.

(To be concluded on Friday, December 9)

Surojit Chatterjee
surojit@christiantoday.co.in





Indianisation of Christianity: Whom are we fooling? (Part 3 of 3 Part Series)
Posted on: Dec 09, 2005 10:55:50 AM




Indianisation is inculcating Indian socio-cultural values and traditions and not Hinduism.









During the reign of the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) at the Center, the RSS often hurled veiled threats to the minority communities, especially urging Muslims and Christians to become “Swadeshi.” On the one hand, the BJP was bending over backwards to get their fingers into the votebank of the Muslims and Christians.

At first glance, what they did would appear confusing. But looking deeply, we can find the sinister, subtle and a conscious effort to coerce them and at the same time offer them protection – something which the Sangh Parivar has specialised in. What they were telling the minorities is that there is no alternative but the BJP. It is in their best interest to support the BJP, and if they do not, the consequences will be severe. Something perhaps similar to the shadowy dealings between underworld gangs and the Bollywood?

Enough is enough. It is time to accept and admit that India is not Hinduism and Hinduism is not India. Though Hindus constitute about 80 percent of the nation’s population, we must distinguish the ‘state’ from ‘religion.’ “Indianisation” to me is inculcating Indian socio-cultural values and traditions and not Hinduism. When we incorporate Hindu traditions, we become Hindus first, (and perhaps) Indians later.

Preaching the good news of Jesus does not make us less Indian than we would be if we recite the “Bhagwata Gita” or “Koran.”


In that case, if I am certain that I am not less Indian than my Hindu brothers or sisters and I am happy confessing Jesus (who, I am certain, has no affiliations with Lashkar-e-Toiba, Jaish-e-Mohammad, Harkat-ul Mujahideen or any other anti-India terrorist outfit for that matter) as my Lord and Savior and believing that the Bible (which, incidentally, do not contain any anti-Indian or “separatist” remark) satisfies my spiritual thirst,


I do not think it is necessary for me to turn to the Hindu religious practices to feel, act and be more “Indian.” Inter-religious dialogues are fine with me to understand and appreciate other religious faiths better so that we can all strive towards preserving and promoting inter-religious peace and harmony. But appreciation of another faith or belief does not necessarily mean that I must incorporate that into my own religious beliefs. The two, I assert again, are distinct and separate.

Let us not look at others in our efforts to help people find God. Others should look at our lives, our traditions and stand in awe of the God we believe in and worship. Let us be the ones who always remember our identity, even in times of suffering and persecution instead of being swayed by circumstances and situations. Let us be the ones who always remember that our God is a Living God, who is always with us and through us His Kingdom of Heaven will be established on earth.

Surojit Chatterjee
surojit@christiantoday.co.in

Copyright © 2002 - 2005 Christian Today (India). All Rights Reserved.


















60 posted on 12/23/2005 11:58:38 AM PST by MILESJESU
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