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Destruction of Catholicism in India
Catholic Church Conservation ^ | 11/01/05 | Gillibrand

Posted on 11/01/2005 7:24:54 PM PST by murphE

I received an e-mail from India from an Indian Catholic of Portuguese Descent from the Portuguese Colony of Goa in India ; name withheld on request. In modern times, the Catholic Church is destroying herself. This has never happened in the course of history.

"My ancestors were evangelized by Catholic Missionaries such as Saint Francis Xavier and good Dominican, Franciscan, and Jesuit Missionaries and I live in India

I have a great devotion to the Divine Mercy, Sacred Heart, The Blessed Sacrament, and Our Lady.

I am shocked and scandalized that there are Indian Priests who are heretics and prepared to engage in large scale Paganism. I visited your web-page where I read the article "Catholic Priests to adopt Hindu Rituals" as well as the Link to the article from NDTV.com.

I have been aware of this for some time and like most Orthodox Indian Catholics I believe that there is nothing we can do except pray as we are a captive audience in our churches and Our Cardinals and Bishops are just not listening to us.

Since,Tuesday over 400 Priests and more than half a dozen bishops have been meeting at the Papal Seminary in Poona-- a City not far from Bombay where I live. They have grandiose plans to paganize the Church by not only incorporating Hindu Rituals but also by violating the sanctity of many of our Catholic Churches with the installation of Hindu Gods and Goddesses near the Blessed Sacrament as well as on the Altar.

Let me really be honest with you. Since, the early 1990's in different parts of India Heretical Priests mainly Jesuits have been celebrating Masses where Readings from the Religious Books of Hindus and Muslims have been taking place as well as other pagan rituals of these two pagan religions.

Not only this, in some parts of India The Tabernacle is in the shape of the intimate organs of a number of different Hindu Gods and Goddesses; This is specially the case in some parts of South India.

This "Evil Inculturation" which they are bent on incorporating seems to have no limits. Why do we need to have these pagan rituals when The Catholic Church is rich with its own symbolism in the Liturgy which has been practiced for Centuries.

There are numerous Priests in India who are hard core heretics and are not ashamed of the consequences that might follow from this act.

I pray that the Holy Father and the Vatican do not give them permission for this. I also pray that the Papal Seminary, Poona is shut down by the Vatican as soon as possible as it has become "Satan's House".

Whatever, these Heretics want to incorporate in Catholic Churches throughout the Length and Breadth of India has been practiced by them for a number of years in the confines of this Seminary and secretly by them in their Churches.

Finally, let me tell you that a number of priests from this Seminary have been excommunicated by Cardinal Ratzinger in the 1990's, But this has not deterred them from pursuing this course of action which is going to be detrimental to the Faith of Thousands of Indian Catholics.

A Number of Priests have been excommunicated in the past most notably a Jesuit Professor by the name of Father Luis Bermejo S.J. who promoted, practiced, and taught all these Pagan Practices. He is a Spanish Jesuit who is a Hard-Core Heretic.

Please pray for the Catholic Church in India as it faces a swelling tide of pagan behaviour at the hands of its own priests.

I believe The Holy Father needs to be apprised of this Issue by Orthodox Catholics from all over the world and realize that he must not give in to these Heretics who call themselves "Priests". Catholic Priests in India for the last 10-15 years have forsaken The Faithful of Christ by promoting Pagan Religions.

Let me end this email by saying that there are a large number of Priests in India specially Jesuits, Salesians, Redemptorists, and even some Diocesan Priests who have been reciting verses from the "Bhagvadgita"-- the Religious Book of Hindus in Catholic Churches and substituting those verses for the first and second reading in the Mass for a number of years or at least two decades in a number of Cities and Towns.

They have even started over the last 15 years, reciting verses from the "Koran" in the Mass in Churches in different parts of India or getting Moslems from Islamic Religious Schools or Imams from Mosques to do the same.

They now plan to extend this Pagan Behavior to all Catholic Churches in India and add some more pagan rituals. Let me also tell you that for the last 10-15 years, as a result of this pagan behavior by priests large numbers of Indian Catholics in Cities like Bombay, Bangalore, and places like Goa, Kerala, etc have left the Catholic Church for "U.S. based Pentecostal Churches" like The Assembly of God, or the Seventh-Day Adventists or any Pentecostal Church you can think of. They are mushrooming in many places in India.

Between 70,000- 1,50,000 Catholics have left the Catholic Church in Bombay in the last 15 years. What is worse, the Clergy is just not interested in bringing them back. "


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholiclist; christianpersecution; crisis; heresy; india; indianchristians; scandal
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To: Salvation

Holy moly!


21 posted on 12/15/2005 12:19:08 AM PST by Bigg Red (Do not trust Democrats with national security!)
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To: voice of india

No, if the Catholic Church in India is going against the Magesterium of the Church then it is NOT in good hands. There is NO room for Hindu rituals or readings from other religion's "holy" books.


22 posted on 12/15/2005 5:06:07 AM PST by Romish_Papist (Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.)
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To: murphE
This is a tad disturbing, no?

Depends on the meaning of the word "tad"...

23 posted on 12/15/2005 6:22:35 AM PST by EternalHope (Boycott everything French forever. Including their vassal nations.)
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To: murphE; NYer; All

"Finally, let me tell you that a number of priests from this Seminary have been excommunicated by Cardinal Ratzinger in the 1990's."

Pray for our Holy Father. Because of world-wide communications and his previous position, he is probably the first Pope in the history of the Church to know exactly what is going on in within the Church in every part of the world. Now he is in a position to do something about all of it. As NYer said on another thread "the enemies list is growing."

Holy Michael Archangel, defend and protect our dear Holy Father Benedict XVI.


24 posted on 12/15/2005 7:13:34 AM PST by nanetteclaret (Our Lady's Hat Society)
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To: nanetteclaret; murphE
There is something about this 'email' that doesn't jive. Even if it is true, I believe the majority of catholics in India, are members of the SYRO MALABAR Tradition. Same faith, different flavor.
25 posted on 12/15/2005 8:00:11 AM PST by NYer ("Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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To: BearWash

Dear Friend in Christ,

I am a New Free Republic Member from India. I was born and raised in Bombay also known as Mumbai. I am an Orthodox Catholic of Portuguese Descent originally from Bardez, (North Goa) and I am in my early 30’s. I was educated at a prominent Jesuit School in Bombay or rather Mumbai and I am in touch with a number of Jesuit, Diocesan, and Salesian Priests in Mumbai. You are welcome to have a look at my profile.

By the way, Are you from Goa too? You make a mention in your message that “Goa is still a very Catholic-friendly place and I would like to visit someday”. But, if the Pentecostal Churches which are spreading rapidly in Goa are successful at what they do Goa’s Catholicity will not remain for long.

The situation is quite bad in this respect in Salcette and specially in Margao where a number of Catholic Families from all sections of society have left the Church. I personally know some close friends and distant relatives who have left.


Let me say this as frankly as possible. Goa is changing radically and rapidly. Large numbers of Goan Catholics have been leaving the Church since 1990 for a host of Pentecostal Churches namely The Jehovah Witnesses, Assembly of God, Seventh Day Adventists, and many other smaller Pentecostal Churches.


A Conservative Estimate puts the number of Catholics who have left the Church in Goa at 25,000 but recent figures reveal that as many as 50,000 could have left. Panjim, the capital of Goa is the headquarters of a number of Pentecostal Churches since the late 1980’s. In Mumbai(Bombay), the situation is much, much, worse. I know for a fact that 1,00,000 Catholics have left the Church and the figure is as high as 1,50,000. There are 600,000 Catholics in Mumbai.


The reasons why they have left are manifold. But, two of the main reasons are financial and more importantly a total lack of pastoral reach by our very own catholic priests who feel that appeasement of pagan religions like Hinduism and Islam will get the church richer dividends in the long run though it is ruining the church as I write to you.


Catholic Priests in India I have found are extremely short sighted and are quite indifferent to the faith life of Catholics and Catholic Families – this is specially true in Mumbai and Goa. They are not concerned at all about the exodus from the Catholic Church in Bombay, Goa, Bangalore, Calcutta, and many other places.


In the Archdiocese of Bangalore it is estimated that at least 20,000 Catholics have left the Church in the last 10-15 years but the figure could be higher.


I am the person who sent this article as an email to the webmaster of Catholic Church Conservation also known as http://cathcon.blogspot.com on the 31st of October which he posted on his web page on the 1st of November.

His name is Chris Gillibrand. The Objective of his Web –Site is to highlight Liturgical Abuse which it seems is rampant in the Catholic Church in a number of countries in Europe. If you visit his web- page you will know what I am talking about.


The purpose of my Article was threefold. One, to create awareness among fellow Orthodox Catholics in the West specially in North America and Europe about the deteriorating situation in the Catholic Church in India which has been getting from bad to worse for the last 15-20 years specially in reference to “Paganism” which I prefer to describe as “Evil Inculturation” which has been increasing in leaps and bounds in a number of Dioceses and Archdioceses in India led by a number of Heretic and Pagan Jesuits Jesuits and other priests most notably Salesians as well as Redemptorists in recent years.


Secondly, to highlight how Jesuit Priests and Bishops who style themselves as “International Sanskrit and Islamic Scholars” have been celebrating Sacrilegious Masses in various parts of India. Most notable among them are the present Jesuit Archbishop of Patna (Archbishop Benedict Osta S.J.) who since 1990 has been getting Muslims reciting verses from the Koran in various Masses he has unfortunately been celebrating .

He gets young muslim boys from Madrassas (Islamic Schools) in and around Patna to do this or he gets Islamic Clerics themselves to perform these Idolatrous Rites in the Mass.


Lastly, Over the last few years, he has started something new the incorporation of pagan hindu rituals in the holy sacrifice of the mass ie the recitation of “OM” in the Liturgy, the ritual of Aarti, the recitation of verses from the Vedas, Upanishads, BhagvadGita etc in place of the first or second reading in Mass which is usually traditionally taken from the Old and New Testament.


His brothers in arms have been a number of Pagan and Heretic Jesuits from Pune who teach at the Papal Seminary there as well as at DeNobili Seminary where this Paganism has been rampant and widespread for the last 2 decades. Priests like Father Francis D’sa, Father Noel Sheth S.J. etc have been evil pioneers in this regard.


My Friend “Voice of India” seems to think that the Jesuits are still what they were 40-50 years ago ie traditional and in sync with Church teaching; they certainly are not. I can vouch for that as I was educated at a Jesuit School having mentioned that above and I am a member of a Jesuit Parish in Bombay at present.


The Jesuits specially the younger ones are extremely liberal and modernist in Mumbai. It is only the Spanish Jesuits and some Indian Jesuits who are in their 70’s or 80’s who can be said to be “Traditional” or “Conservative”.


There is a Bishop from Mumbai – Bishop Thomas Dabre who is the greatest promoter of this paganism in the liturgy and has a keen desire to implement this as soon as possible in the Parishes of Mumbai.


Recently , at a parish in the distant suburb of Mumbai he had vermillion applied to himself as well as to some members of the congregation and to concelebrants at this Mass. This information I have received from the Examiner which proudly publicized it in one of their recent issues.
There are even some nuns who over the last few years have started reciting verses from the Koran, Bhagvadgita, Vedas, Upanishads, and still believe they are catholic and spreading the Message of Christ and his Church.


Recently, I had the unfortunate experience of attending an “Anticipated Mass” at a Jesuit Parish in Bombay where Father Charles Vas S.V.D. performed a Pagan Litrurgical Dance in front of the altar in a semi- naked state aka “Bharat Natyam Style” on the Second Saturday in August 2005.


He has been actively encouraged in this gross paganism by an infamous fellow Divine Word Priest Dr. Francis Barboza S.V.D. who is now resident in the United States and dances in a semi- naked state before the altar in a number of catholic churches in the states of New York and New Jersey where he currently is based and promotes this evil nonsense.


He has a web site to boot namely www.drbarboza.com – For crying out loud will some one tell me whether he is a male, a female, or what ? You will be definitely shocked to see what he does as I was when I accessed that web site.


I just cannot understand this. Why doesn’t some Orthodox Catholic Bishop, Archbishop, or the Pope do something about this. They could easily excommunicate these heretic priests after pulling them up if they still do not mend their ways.


Finally, I lived in the United States for 5 years specifically in Philadelphia and Atlanta till I returned recently to India in 2002 and I hope to come back soon to the United States. You can tell your wife that Liberalism and Modernism of all kinds are flooding all religious orders(Male and Female) in Bombay and other places too.


I am aware of the Sex Abuse Scandals in the Priesthood in various parts of the United States, but unlike the United States where this issue is being tackled right now – Paganism, Heresy, and Evil Inculturation in the Catholic Church in India is being given two thumbs up by almost every Bishop and Archbishop in most parts of the country as well as by a number of Religious Orders.


You and your wife may not be aware of this, but in Bangalore there is a Church called the “N.B.C.L.C. Church” which has images of Brahma, Shiva, Etc and which was financed by the C.B.C.I. but is now independent – it has been the source of great controversy since the early 1980’s.


I must say this as I end this long message “All Praise, Honor, and Glory be to Jesus Christ in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and to no one else” Not to the Prophet Mohammed, nor to Ram, Sita, Laxman, Brahma, Shiva, or to any of the pantheon of the Hindu Gods and Goddesses that exist.


My Friend “Voice of India” may not be aware of this. But, Cardinal Simon Lourduswamy and his infamous brother priest Father Amaloporvadass S.J. have been at the forefront of the paganization of the Catholic Church in South India. I know for a fact, having received credible information from a number of well- respected Priests and Religious in Mumbai and Goa who are Conservative that in a number of Churches in some Dioceses in Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka particularly in Mysore and Bangalore as well as in Madras now known as Chennai – Pagan Rituals in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass have been practiced for a number of years.


It is very sad and unfortunate that I have to say this. But, in the Archdiocese of Mumbai Cardinal Ivan Dias and his Predecessor Cardinal Simon Pimenta for a number of years have turned a blind eye to the activities of these heretic priests. Cardinal Ivan Dias although traditional is sitting on the fence with regard to this issue. Maybe he feels that if he takes any action the priests in question will leave the Church enmasse causing a vocation crisis.They have also not done anything at all with regard to the continuous exodus from the Catholic Church in Mumbai to a number of Pentecostal Sects.


In Mumbai(Bombay) Vocations to the Priesthood and Religious Life have sharply dropped both among men and women with the Jesuits suffering the worst drop in 2 decades. If anyone on this thread, would like to have any more information on this issue I am willing to provide it as soon as possible.


I have a number of excellent articles of recent date with me from the Statesman which is published from Calcutta now known as Kolkata and from the Mumbai Mirror a new addition to the Tines of India. Just let me know in your response to this post.


In Jesus and Mary,


26 posted on 12/15/2005 10:10:12 AM PST by MILESJESU
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To: NYer

Dear NYer,

I am the Guy who sent this email to the webmaster of cathcon.blogspot.com because I am truly concerned about what has been happening in the Catholic Church in India for the past 2.5 decades.

I am not a raving and ranting 80 or 90 year old who sent this email to Chris Gillibrand of Catholic Church Conservation. I am a 34 year old Orthodox Catholic Guy born and raised in Bombay who has known about this "Paganism" in the Catholic Church for the last 15 years.

My only desire is to inform and create awareness among Orthodox and Traditional Catholics in North America and Europe who it seems are completely oblivious with regard to these happenings in the Catholic Church in India.

Lastly, I wish to make a correction to something that you have said in your last post. Syro- Malabar Catholics do not form the majority of Catholics in India. In India, there are officially 18 million Catholics out of which Syro-Malabar Catholics would at the maximum be 5-6 million at the most. To me that does not constitute a majority.

By the way, I am a Saint Francis Xavier Catholic. My ancestors were evangelized to Catholicism in the late 15th or early 16th Century by Portuguese Catholic Missionaries when Goa was a colony of the Portuguese.

In Jesus and Mary,


27 posted on 12/15/2005 10:20:58 AM PST by MILESJESU
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To: murphE

It's true about the Pentecostal and independent Protestant churches making inroads in many Third World cultures. I've heard Pentecostals brag that many Catholic churches in the small villages are empty shells, just beautiful buildings where few worship, whereas the Pentecostals come to town and set up a tent and attract hundreds, esp. when they bring in medil missionaries to treat the peoples' diseases.


28 posted on 12/15/2005 10:37:10 AM PST by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: SOLDIEROFJESUSCHRIST

most interesting report.


29 posted on 12/15/2005 10:42:38 AM PST by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: SOLDIEROFJESUSCHRIST

Our diocese has had a few visiting priests from India. They have all been solid in the faith, as far as I could tell. That www.drbarboza.com website was very disturbing. Please tell me he doesn't do that during mass.

Thank you and God bless you. Saint Francis Xavier pray for us.


30 posted on 12/15/2005 10:50:30 AM PST by Nihil Obstat
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To: Nihil Obstat

Dear Nihil Obstat,

Greetings from India. I have just read your message. Yes, I agree that all Indian Catholic Priests are not raving liberals and heretics such as Dr. Father Francis Barboza S.V.D. Father Charles Vas S.V.D. and many others.

It really depends where their Seminary Formation took place. If they were in a Seminary with Orthodox Catholic Professors and Bishops then the likelihood of being indoctrinated with this crap is negligible but if they were at the Papal Seminary in Pune -- then who knows what they have been taught that Seminary to me seems to be Satan's own home specially with the crap the Priests have been taeching, promoting, and endorsing there.

By the way, do not be shocked at what you have seen. What you see is what you get. By that I mean, he really does that stuff in Catholic Churches in India whenever he visits India -- He is also known to engage in such Pagan Dances in Catholic Churches in Germany and in the United States where he is based.

He desperately needs our prayers in this regard as he is training a large number of young indian priests to do this crap. That means he is just poisoning a lot of priests of the younger generation.

In Jesus and Mary,


31 posted on 12/15/2005 11:02:24 AM PST by MILESJESU
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To: SOLDIEROFJESUSCHRIST
Thank-you for posting that.
32 posted on 12/15/2005 11:34:24 AM PST by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: SOLDIEROFJESUSCHRIST
I am the Guy who sent this email to the webmaster of cathcon.blogspot.com because I am truly concerned about what has been happening in the Catholic Church in India for the past 2.5 decades.

Thank you for posting this response.

My only desire is to inform and create awareness among Orthodox and Traditional Catholics in North America and Europe who it seems are completely oblivious with regard to these happenings in the Catholic Church in India.

This may well be true. Like you, we have certain bishops who are out of line and leading their flocks astray. Other than posting information to a blog, what actions are being taken locally to address these happenings in India? Is there an organized group to monitor and report the activities to Rome?

In India, there are officially 18 million Catholics out of which Syro-Malabar Catholics would at the maximum be 5-6 million at the most. To me that does not constitute a majority.

Again, thank you for posting those statistics and distinguishing between the Latin and Syro-Malabar Churches.

My ancestors were evangelized to Catholicism in the late 15th or early 16th Century by Portuguese Catholic Missionaries when Goa was a colony of the Portuguese.

Interesting!

We have a fairly well organized group of catholics here in the forum. If there is a way we can be of assistance, please let me know. Rest assured of my prayers.

33 posted on 12/15/2005 11:52:42 AM PST by NYer ("Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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To: murphE

India currently produces more vocations to the priesthood, both on a per capita basis and an absolute basis, than any other country in the world. The Church is alive and well in India, some of whose Christians (in the Indian state of Kerala) can trace their faith to apostolic times.


34 posted on 12/15/2005 2:00:41 PM PST by Thorin ("I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.")
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To: murphE

Sounds like some cases in the good ol' USA. San Antonio comes to mind.


35 posted on 12/15/2005 2:02:30 PM PST by al_c
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To: SOLDIEROFJESUSCHRIST; Salvation; murphE
Thank you for your wonderful message which I only had time to skim as we are heading out the door to a CHRISTmas* function. Your message is being printed as I speak for careful review. I am very appreciative and will send you a private reply later this weekend.

As coincidence would have it, my wife spoke this morning to an old friend who also grew up in that Mumbai convent (the friend also lives in the U.S. now). The friend has relatives still in India and told my wife that persecution of Catholics is increasing. A relative was denied an apartment rental as the building was for Hindus "only". In another incident, a Catholic was required to donate money to a Hindu festival of some kind.

We certainly aren't anti-Hindu, at least based on our own personal experiences, and our extended family has quite the assortment of religions under one roof, but things do seem to have turned a little uglier over there. The wife's friend also made a comment similar to yours that Goa may be changing.

The worst part is that no clear delineation seems to exist between the Sacred Liturgy and local cultural practices which can and should be integrated into general Church-centered life but not into the Mass itself. This, as you have noted, is unfortunately occurring with the consent and direction of certain Catholic officials.

*FYI of everyone reading, we were surprised that our local HeadStart preschool operation (federally funded, mostly) this week held a fully-fledged CHRISTmas party with no P.C. B.S. at all. No, there were no Nativity scenes or anything overtly religious, but I wouldn't have expected any and there was no attempt whatsoever to stifle "Jesus talk" among those who wished to engage in it. We are in a small western U.S. town but I bet that HeadStart parties somewhere like Boston, for example, are about as P.C. and anti-Christian as you can get.
36 posted on 12/15/2005 2:21:32 PM PST by steve86 (@Note to FR dictionary maintainer -- Mumbai should be added.)
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To: NYer

Dear NYer,

I have read your message. You do not seem to be familiar with Indian Catholics from the State of Goa. So, for your information I will list some interesting information for you.

http://pweb.sophia.ac.jp/~d-mccoy/xavier/newman3.html At this Web Page, you will find all that you would like to know about the Missionary work done by Saint Francis Xavier while he was in Goa for a number of years.

In Goa, we still have the preserved and to a large extent the incorrupt body of Saint Francis Xavier at the Bom Jesus Basilica which is situated in Old Goa and which is some distance from the capital of the State of Goa.

In 2004, we had the annual 10 year exposition of the body of Saint Francis Xavier and this year since the 3rd of December the 500th Birth Celebrations of Saint Francis Xavier have commenced which will end next year on the same day in 2006.

In Jesus and Mary,


37 posted on 12/15/2005 6:50:55 PM PST by MILESJESU
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To: SOLDIEROFJESUSCHRIST
You do not seem to be familiar with Indian Catholics from the State of Goa. So, for your information I will list some interesting information for you.

You are correct; I am not familiar with Indian Catholics. As a child, I remember my mother boxing up books, periodicals, magazines, and clothing to be sent to the missions in India.

Here in the US, we are plagued with enough of our own scandals. In certain dioceses (especially mine), there are reprobate bishops who have practically decimated their catholic flocks. As with your situation, we are also very concerned. I fought liturgical abuses at my parish and within my own diocese with little or no help. Hence, you have my deepest sympathy.

In my agony and distress, I turned to our Lord and asked Him to guide me to a holy priest, a reverent liturgy and a welcoming community where I could celebrate Mass. When I arrived at the Maronite Catholic Church, He let me know in no uncertain terms that I was 'home'. It is there that I have now planted my roots and embarked on a beautiful catholic faith journey.

Thank you for the link. It is late but I promise to read it tomorrow.

38 posted on 12/15/2005 7:05:43 PM PST by NYer ("Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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To: SOLDIEROFJESUSCHRIST

I am so glad that you responded to this thread with the truth. May God reward you!

Merry Christmas!


39 posted on 12/15/2005 7:19:42 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

Salvation,Bump.


40 posted on 12/15/2005 8:33:38 PM PST by fatima (I told the doctor, ``Doc, my foot hurts -- what should I do?'' ``Limp,'' he said. H. Youngman)
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